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Minutes 29 June 2017

Tobias Fischer edited this page Sep 15, 2017 · 2 revisions

W3C Logo

Meeting: EPUB 3 Community Group

Date: June 29, 2017

See also the Agenda and the IRC Log

Attendees

Present: Garth Conboy, Tzviya Siegman, Dave Cramer, Wolfgang Schindler, Tobias Fischer, Bill Kasdorf, Matt Garrish, Peter Krautzberger, Toshiaki Koike, Iris Febres, Brady Duga, Rachel Comerford, Dan Sanicola, Laurent Le Meur, Jean Kaplansky, Julian Calderazi

Regrets: Bernard Heiser, Luc Audrain, Mira Bossowska, Laura Brady, Romain Deltour

Guests:

Chair: Dave Cramer

Scribe(s): Tzviya, Rachel

Content:


1. News and Updates

Dave Cramer: the official formation of the pub wg is the big news

Dave Cramer: https://www.w3.org/publishing/groups/publ-wg/

Dave Cramer: https://www.w3.org/blog/2017/06/bringing-publications-to-the-web-first-steps/

Dave Cramer: we had our first F2F in NYC

Dave Cramer: https://github.com/w3c/publ-wg/issues

Dave Cramer: I encourage all member institutions to join the working group and contribute to the discussion of the issues in the issue tracker - link above the other big upcoming event is TPAC there will be a publishing summit there, somewhat like the old IDPF conference this is in November in the bay area

Tzviya Siegman: tpac https://www.w3.org/2017/11/TPAC/

Bill Kasdorf: Publishing Summit: https://www.w3.org/publishing/events/summit2017

Tzviya Siegman: https://github.com/w3c/publ-cg/wiki/epubcheck-TF-meeting-minutes-and-summaries

Tzviya Siegman: epubcheck tast force is ahead of schedule we finished everything in the June schedule site and test suite cleanup tasks are complete. Romain has submitted a draft for step by step cleanup July and August will be dedicated to cleanup, then maintenance release, then updating for 3.1

Dave Cramer: please attend task force meetings and volunteer

Tzviya Siegman: f2f and phone time is minimal, most of the work takes place online Irisamelia has volunteered to work on the marketing experience

2. EPUB for Education

Rachel Comerford: We have had a few meetings. There's a proposal on the table to break up EPUB for Ed according to which standards they align with

Dave Cramer: current draft of EPUPUB: https://w3c.github.io/publ-cg/education/epub-education.html

Rachel Comerford: I'd like to propose that we break down the specs and actively propose the specs to other orgs

Dave Cramer: https://github.com/w3c/publ-cg/issues/4

Rachel Comerford: I have a list of people who have volunteered for EPUB for Ed. Please contact me if you would like to particapte

Rachel Comerford: There are also some open issues that i'd like to close out first issue relates to epub:type vocabulary. This should go to WG because it relates to DPUB-ARIA

Tzviya Siegman: let's touch base so that the issue doesn't get lost

Dave Cramer: https://github.com/w3c/publ-cg/issues/6

Dave Cramer: The other issues are related to LTI, so I think we can just close them

Bill Kasdorf: My concern is that these things will just get tossed, and these docs have useful information. I want to make sure that the info gets preserved

Dave Cramer: I don't think there is any concern that IMS will forget about LTI integration

Bill Kasdorf: My concern is that someone coming to w3c won't know about this

Dave Cramer: once complete, we can add links

Rachel Comerford: Good solution. I have an additional question about roles and responsibilities of different orgs in this

Dave Cramer: Who is responsible for inter-group coordination? maybe this is the BG?

Bill Kasdorf: Perhaps the edupub alliance should continue to exist, but that org needs oversight

Dave Cramer: the last call mentioned the need for the idpf's ongoing page

Dave Cramer: http://idpf.org/ongoing

Tzviya Siegman: the business group agreed to look over and assess the ongoing page but not to maintain -this remains unresolved

Dave Cramer: https://w3c.github.io/publ-cg/

Garth Conboy: (I predict lack of maintenance of ongoing page… being current EPUB spec on IDPF site is still 3.0.x)

Garth Conboy: ... in terms of how these relate to each other, it's unlikely that someone in the w3c is going to take ownership of this (relationship to IMS, IETF...) but someone might take ownership of a best practices document

Garth Conboy" ... an organization like BISG might be the best place to do it, but the CG is not the right group to decide this

Bill_Kasdorf: I think it's likely this will be well received by BISG

Dave Cramer: is there an international analog to BISG?

Bill_Kasdorf: no, but there are sister organizations

Jean Kaplansky: eBound Canada is the org. in Canada

Tzviya Siegma: we agree that we need to raise this to the BG as a problem

Dave Cramer: https://github.com/w3c/publ-cg/issues/3

Wolfgang Schindler: I would suppose that "Börsenverein des deutschen Buchhandels" (German Booksellers and Publishers Association) is the German equivalent to BISG

3. Rendering

Dave Cramer: https://github.com/w3c/publ-cg/wiki/Rendering

Dave Cramer: I've heard lots of requests from publishers for images that take up full screen

Dave Cramer: this has come up in reflowable books such as cookbooks

Dave Cramer: one use case is to mix a fixed layout page in other reflowable content. This is allowed in the spec but not widely supported in reading systems

Julian Calderazi: dave we depend fully on reading systems about this.

Brady Duga: the other case is a travel guide with a beautiful header that has a picture of the sunrise - the content is reflowable but you want to drop the edges. Fixed layout does not work here

Dave Cramer: these things are illegal in html, but it almost sounds like processing instructions from the old days. where can we put this information?

Brady Duga: We could put this in the meta-inf or something, if it's a global setting. it's probably not required for HTML/CSS. If they designed part of the book that way, they can design the whole book that way

Wolfgang Schindler: could the info perhaps be in additional attributes on top of HTML?

Brady Duga: I'd have to look at more content to assess whether this would be problematic for actual content in newer EPUBs

Dave Cramer: We should ask people for samples

Jean Kaplansky: I would like to make clarification. We are talking about viewports, not pages. it's a distinction that we need to make in taking about digital there are things we need to do to facilitate the different format

Dave Cramer: most reading system paginate, so there are pages in some

Wolfgang Schindler: FXL related to viewports of different sizes will be a problem.

Jean Kaplansky: most reading systems have pagination available but quite a few offer the "one big scroll approach" so we really are talking about viewports

Bill Kasdorf: another distinction is pre-paginated vs. dynamically paginated

Dave Cramer: we're talking about impacting the interface without touching the content it sounds like pursuing this idea of an image taking up the whole viewport of a reading system is worth pursuing

Naomi Kennedy: the reader needs the ability to set their own margins on the images that aren't bleeding

Bill Kasdorf: if there's an opportunity to take over a viewport you need a way to escape like when you go full screen in a presentation and need to get out there needs to be a built in convention

Dave Cramer: we wouldn't suppress the chrome entirely

Tzviya Siegman: what are we trying to accomplish - this CG is for maintenance. Is this a proposal for the CSS WG?

Dave Cramer: I don't think this is CSS - it's a negotiation btwn the author and the reading system. As an epub feature, this sounds like what might happen is that there is a new rendition in the pkg this might be applicable to epub3.11 or epub 3.2

Brady Duga: in talking about viewports, we're talking about how big the viewport should be we could address it by leaving margins that are not included in the viewport

Dave Cramer: the epub is prob being rendered btwn 5,000 divs and iframes. Maybe I can work with Naomi and duga and see where this goes?

Garth Conboy: most reading systems don't support mixing fixed and flowing - it's a matter of guilting reading systems into supporting this. It's a chicken and egg problem. we don't do it because it's not supported, it's not supported because we don't do it