MSC3230: Spaces top level order #3230

BillCarsonFr · 2021-06-03T10:09:47Z

rendered

Implementations

Element Web: Allow reordering of the space panel via Drag and Drop matrix-react-sdk#6137, Fix baseToString for n=0 edge case to match inverse stringToBase matrix-js-sdk#1735
Element Android: Feature/bca/spaces dnd element-hq/element-android#3502

proposals/3230-spaces_top_level_order

Co-authored-by: Michael Telatynski <[email protected]>

proposals/3230-spaces_top_level_order.md

Co-authored-by: Erkin Alp Güney <[email protected]>

proposals/3230-spaces_top_level_order.md

turt2live · 2021-06-05T01:02:36Z

proposals/3230-spaces_top_level_order.md

+
+As defined per `room tagging`ordering information is given under the order key as a number between 0 and 1. The numbers are compared such that 0 is displayed first. Therefore a room with an order of 0.2 would be displayed before a room with an order of 0.7. If a room has a tag without an order key then it should appear after the rooms with that tag that have an order key, fallbacking then to roomID lexical order.
+
+This alternative has been discarded becaused perceived as confusing in regards of tags intentions.


confusing how? It seems like a natural fit for reusing existing structures in Matrix, which is ideal.

It's also much easier to work with than lexicographical strings.

Caused infinite problems when we first did it due to truncation and rounding and ieee representation quirks. It didn't proove much easier

@turt2live looks like this has an implementation vector-im/element-android#3502

Also in web matrix-org/matrix-react-sdk@21fc386

Also the spec explicitly calls out tags without a u prefix as reserved for application internal uses, which in this case the tag would be used for ordering spaces instead of as a tag.

proposals/3230-spaces_top_level_order.md

+ Cleaning / line wrap / feedbacks

bb010g · 2021-06-12T23:19:08Z

The "space folder" future consideration overlaps with spaces themselves? A folder could be a space tagged with "folder display" account data.

A similar approach could be taken for the "space pinning" future consideration. Pinned spaces could be children of a space tagged with "pinned spaces" account data.

erkinalp · 2021-06-13T04:52:12Z

proposals/3230-spaces_top_level_order.md

+should appear after the rooms with that tag that have an order key, fallbacking then to roomID lexical order.
+
+This alternative has been discarded becaused perceived as confusing in regards of tags intentions.
+


Suggested change

## Alternatives

Have space child room pointers in MSC1769 profile rooms, hence have the ordering per-profile,

rather than per-account.

Dominaezzz · 2021-06-15T13:48:15Z

proposals/3230-spaces_top_level_order.md

+
+In order to find mid points between two orders strings, the `order` string can be considered as
+a base N number where N is the length of the allowed alphabet. So the string can be converted
+to a base 10 number for computation and mid point computation, then converted back to base N.


I don't think this algorithm works well enough to go into the spec as a recommended algorithm.

First issue is for an alphabet "A-Z" it considers "B" and "BA" to be the same thing, which they're not. Collisions would become an issue.

For A..B and limit 4 0 A 8 AA 12 AAA 14 AAAA 15 AAAB 16 AAB 16 AABA 17 AABB 18 AB 16 ABA 18 ABAA 19 ABAB 20 ABB 20 ABBA 21 ABBB 22 B 16 BA 20 BAA 22 BAAA 23 BAAB 24 BAB 24 BABA 25 BABB 26 BB 24 BBA 26 BBAA 27 BBAB 28 BBB 28 BBBA 29 BBBB 30

One could fix this by treating the string as a base N + 1 and padding the end of the string with the new character.
But you get gaps in that case.

For A..B and limit 4 0 A 27 AA 36 AAA 39 AAAA 40 AAAB 41 AAB 42 AABA 43 AABB 44 AB 45 ABA 48 ABAA 49 ABAB 50 ABB 51 ABBA 52 ABBB 53 B 54 BA 63 BAA 66 BAAA 67 BAAB 68 BAB 69 BABA 70 BABB 71 BB 72 BBA 75 BBAA 76 BBAB 77 BBB 78 BBBA 79 BBBB 80

Ah, I just noticed that the example also highlights this.

"a" = 65*(95^0) "z" = 90*(95^0) "az" = 65*(95^1) + 90*(95^0)

Simplified, the calculated values are.

"a" = 65 "z" = 90 "az" = 6265

Sorting them lexicographically, "az" is between "a" and "z", but the numbers don't reflect this.
Worse yet, the number of possible strings between "a" and "z" should be massive! Much bigger than 2^32.
But this algo says the available strings is "90 - 65", which is just 25.

The issue is that we need a representation that allows to easily compute midpoints / interval in between to orders.
Nonetheless it's true that string to base representation is not respecting lexicographic order (as we are padding strings to be same length).
I might update MSC to reflect the need for padding or state to use stringToBase to compare

aaronraimist · 2021-10-21T08:46:53Z

@turt2live looks like this has an implementation element-hq/element-android#3502

anoadragon453 · 2023-01-20T17:39:49Z

I've added the known implementations to the PR's description. These appear to constitute appropriate implementations of the MSC, do you agree @BillCarsonFr?

deepbluev7 · 2023-03-02T01:50:23Z

proposals/3230-spaces_top_level_order.md

+This alternative has been discarded as it won't scale, could reach event content size limit, and is
+less flexible as a way to define order compared to [0,1].


There is no size limit for account data events (otherwise m.direct would break). A bigger concern is that clients often break the m.direct event when updating the list in it, because it is racy, which would apply here too, but I very much doubt users will be in so many top level spaces, that this will ever matter here.

deepbluev7 · 2023-03-02T02:00:30Z

proposals/3230-spaces_top_level_order.md

+On tap would expand the pannel.
+
+## Alternatives
+


Not that I think it is a particularly good idea, but one could also create a private, invisible top level space, that orders its children by the normal rules. Only difference would be that that top level space is not shown in clients and is only used for ordering.

ajbura · 2024-05-17T08:16:22Z

proposals/3230-spaces_top_level_order.md

+
+## Future considerations
+
+__Space Pinning__: The room `m.space_order` content could be extended by adding categories like `pinned`.


Is this about pinning non-top level spaces?

ajbura · 2024-05-17T08:48:55Z

proposals/3230-spaces_top_level_order.md

+__Space Folder__: In order to save vertical space, content could be extended to define folders
+and space with same folder could be represented as a single entry in the space pannel.
+On tap would expand the pannel.


if defining folders and spaces with same folder key as folder id will be represented as single entry, how the folder entry will be ordered around other top-level spaces or folders? does folder key is also a lexicographical order key?

t3chguy · 2024-12-19T16:47:44Z

proposals/3230-spaces_top_level_order.md

+Where `order` is a string that will be compared using lexicographic order. Spaces with
+no order should appear last and be ordered using the roomID.
+
+`orders` which are not strings, or do not consist solely of ascii characters in the range \x20 (space) to \x7E (~),


Suggested change

`orders` which are not strings, or do not consist solely of ascii characters in the range \x20 (space) to \x7E (~),

`order` fields which are not strings, or do not consist solely of ascii characters in the range \x20 (space) to \x7E (~),

Spaces top level order

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Co-authored-by: Michael Telatynski <[email protected]>

missing md ext

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BillCarsonFr added 2 commits June 3, 2021 14:53

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turt2live changed the title ~~Spaces top level order~~ MSC3230: Spaces top level order Jun 3, 2021

turt2live added kind:feature MSC for not-core and not-maintenance stuff proposal A matrix spec change proposal proposal-in-review client-server Client-Server API labels Jun 3, 2021

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aaronraimist mentioned this pull request Jun 4, 2021

Allow top level spaces to be reordered element-hq/element-web#17282

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Update proposals/3230-spaces_top_level_order.md

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Co-authored-by: Erkin Alp Güney <[email protected]>

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turt2live added the needs-implementation This MSC does not have a qualifying implementation for the SCT to review. The MSC cannot enter FCP. label Jun 8, 2021

BillCarsonFr added 4 commits June 11, 2021 11:10

Added details on order and mid point computation

835d6a3

+ Cleaning / line wrap / feedbacks

Add string to base sample

85d4eca

Fix copy

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Fix padding comment

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User defined top level spaces ordering element-hq/element-android#3501

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turt2live force-pushed the old_master branch from e895827 to dca99ee Compare August 30, 2021 22:34

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Favourites created in Spaces show up in Home element-hq/element-web#18634

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MSC3972: Lexicographical strings as an ordering mechanism #3972

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org.matrix.msc3230.space_order support Nheko-Reborn/nheko#1507

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Spaces: collection of known bugs and missing features SchildiChat/schildichat-android-next#4

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MSC3230: Spaces top level order #3230

MSC3230: Spaces top level order #3230

BillCarsonFr commented Jun 3, 2021 •

edited by anoadragon453

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turt2live Jun 5, 2021

Dominaezzz Jun 15, 2021

BillCarsonFr Jan 28, 2022 •

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BillCarsonFr Jan 28, 2022

deepbluev7 Mar 2, 2023

bb010g commented Jun 12, 2021

erkinalp Jun 13, 2021

Dominaezzz Jun 15, 2021

Dominaezzz Dec 6, 2021

BillCarsonFr Jan 28, 2022

aaronraimist commented Oct 21, 2021

anoadragon453 commented Jan 20, 2023

deepbluev7 Mar 2, 2023

deepbluev7 Mar 2, 2023

ajbura May 17, 2024

ajbura May 17, 2024

t3chguy Dec 19, 2024


		As defined per `room tagging`ordering information is given under the order key as a number between 0 and 1. The numbers are compared such that 0 is displayed first. Therefore a room with an order of 0.2 would be displayed before a room with an order of 0.7. If a room has a tag without an order key then it should appear after the rooms with that tag that have an order key, fallbacking then to roomID lexical order.

		This alternative has been discarded becaused perceived as confusing in regards of tags intentions.

		should appear after the rooms with that tag that have an order key, fallbacking then to roomID lexical order.

		This alternative has been discarded becaused perceived as confusing in regards of tags intentions.

+## Alternatives
+Have space child room pointers in MSC1769 profile rooms, hence have the ordering per-profile,
+ rather than per-account.

		This alternative has been discarded as it won't scale, could reach event content size limit, and is
		less flexible as a way to define order compared to [0,1].


		## Future considerations

		__Space Pinning__: The room `m.space_order` content could be extended by adding categories like `pinned`.

	`orders` which are not strings, or do not consist solely of ascii characters in the range \x20 (space) to \x7E (~),
	`order` fields which are not strings, or do not consist solely of ascii characters in the range \x20 (space) to \x7E (~),

MSC3230: Spaces top level order #3230

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MSC3230: Spaces top level order #3230

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BillCarsonFr commented Jun 3, 2021 • edited by anoadragon453 Loading

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BillCarsonFr commented Jun 3, 2021 •

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