Element no longer runs on MacOS 11 / Big Sur

[openforfuture]

Steps to reproduce

1. Where are you starting? What can you see?
   Element auto-updated to 1.11.58 and now crashes on opening:

2. What do you click?
   I just open the app.

3. More
   I had to go back to 1.11.57 and also lock the app so it doesn't update again. Why there's no way to stop it from update?

UI/UX improvements:

• allow users to disable auto-updates
• if the app crashes after an update, revert to previous version automatically and stop auto-updates
• provide a version selector

Outcome

What did you expect?

A smooth update process

What happened instead?

App now crashes on opening

Operating system

macOS Big Sur 11.7.10

Application version

1.11.58

How did you install the app?

https://element.io/ and then auto-update

Homeserver

matrix.org

Will you send logs?

No

[t3chguy]

Big Sur is EOL and is no longer supported by us as per our support policy

https://endoflife.date/macos
https://github.com/element-hq/element-web#supported-environments

Why there's no way to stop it from update?

There is, via config.json

[openforfuture]

Oh no, so I'm stuck on Big Sur and 1.11.57 for the moment...

config.json is not user friendly at all: please don't forget that not all people are tech savvy, actually we're the minority.

also, why Element updates to 1.11.58 if Big Sur is not supported? the updater should be smart enough to avoid that.

[t3chguy]

the updater should be smart enough to avoid that.

Feel free to suggest it https://github.com/Squirrel/Squirrel.Mac

config.json is not user friendly at all: please don't forget that not all people are tech savvy, actually we're the minority.

It isn't meant to be friendly, turning off updates and/or staying on EOL systems is not a context we support as it basically invalidates any security you hope to achieve with End to End Encryption.

[openforfuture]

done:
Squirrel/Squirrel.Mac#280

not everybody use Element because of E2EE, some (most?) use it like any other messenger/chat app to reach communities/people which are not in other places. like FOSS communities.

from a user perspective:

• I've a working app and I can speak with people
• app updates
• app stops working
• I cannot speak with people anymore

It's very simple and if you want people to use your app, you should take care of UX also when it comes to updates. It's not user fault if the app breaks.

thank you for your explanations, hope you will also consider my points 🙏

[gusarg81]

By the way, is there a way to install latest working version in Big Sur? (or which version is known to work in this OS version).

[glennsl]

To add to this, intentionally breaking the app in a patch release is a major no-no for any kind of software, and there is also no mention of this in the change log. This kind of experience makes it impossible to recommend adoption in any serious organization.

[t3chguy]

It was not an intentional change, likely came from updating Electron, but as per the support policy issues from unsupported environments are closed without fix.

[bblade]

Please add the ability to disable Auto updates.

[glennsl]

It was not an intentional change, likely came from updating Electron, but as per the support policy issues from unsupported environments are closed without fix.

Assuming it was an intentional major update of Electron, it still should be noted in the change log and not released as a patch. Electron uses semantic versioning, requires a major release when updating Chromium, and notes so in their change log. A major release indicates there's likely breaking changes.

I'm otherwise fine with the wontfix. What I'm not fine with is the experience that people are having with software they rely on randomly breaking without any explanation, and the dismissive attitude towards it. That makes me lose faith in this project as a whole, which is a shame, because it's mostly really good.

[t3chguy]

There was no major update of Electron recently, maybe its another dependency, in any case it wasn't known or intentional. As for our versioning, we have to strictly follow the version of Element Web 1:1, and never claim to follow semver for the Element Web & Desktop layers.

[bblade]

@glennsl I totally agreed with you.

It's so disappointing to get replies from the Element-hq member like above. Like, it's not the developer's problem at all that the software stops working after the latest update. Go get a new computer if you'd like or EOL (equal to GTFO).

[glennsl]

There was no major update of Electron recently, maybe its another dependency, in any case it wasn't known or intentional. As for our versioning, we have to strictly follow the version of Element Web 1:1, and never claim to follow semver for the Element Web & Desktop layers.

I know you're not claiming to use semantic versioning. My point is that there isn't a single indication anywhere that this release would just stop working, even if you're savvy enough to know where to look. I don't want to be too critical, mistakes do happen especially in a project based entirely on volunteerism. But this dismissive attitude of essentially saying "not my problem, my ass is covered by the fine print" seems to be the bigger problem at the root of this. And that's a choice.

[t3chguy]

My point is that there isn't a single indication anywhere that this release would just stop working, even if you're savvy enough to know where to look.

Indeed, just as we had no indication when updating dependencies. As stated earlier, it wasn't intended or known, hence not being shouted about like when we do know such a change happens - e.g. https://github.com/element-hq/element-desktop/releases/tag/v1.11.48

[gusarg81]

So, version 1.11.57 does Work, for example, with Big Sur?

[t3chguy]

I don't have access to a Big Sur machine to test, but based on #1505 (comment) I'd imagine so

[gusarg81]

Big Sur is EOL and is no longer supported by us as per our support policy

https://endoflife.date/macos https://github.com/element-hq/element-web#supported-environments

Why there's no way to stop it from update?

There is, via config.json

Which part of config.json is the value for disable Auto Updates and where is that file?

[gusarg81]

Also, where I can download 1.11.57 .dmg file?

[glennsl]

Indeed, just as we had no indication when updating dependencies. As stated earlier, it wasn't intended or known, hence not being shouted about like when we do know such a change happens - e.g. https://github.com/element-hq/element-desktop/releases/tag/v1.11.48

That's good to see. But this still wouldn't be picked up by most end-users. A simple and much more user-friendly way of informing them could be to have a banner saying that they're using an unsupported environment, that this impairs security and that the app might stop working. That might require having a different attitude towards end-users though.

Anyway, I don't want to make a big fuss, just making the point that this is a really bad experience and that it wouldn't take that much effort to make it much less so.

[glennsl]

So, version 1.11.57 does Work, for example, with Big Sur?

It worked on Catalina even!

[gusarg81]

So, version 1.11.57 does Work, for example, with Big Sur?

It worked on Catalina even!

Do you know where I can download the dmg file of that version?

[t3chguy]

Also, where I can download 1.11.57 .dmg file?

packages.element.io

[openforfuture]

Thank you all to join the conversation and support my point. 🙏

@t3chguy the issue at this point has nothing to do with tech but with communication:

• from what I can read we all understand that mistakes can happen, so it happened, I believe we're all fine with that
• from your replies it's hard to say if you care about what happened and, especially, if you plan to do something to avoid this issue to happen again in the future
• also, for me is very important that my feedbacks are seen as a value to who manages the project, honestly I still don't have that feeling and this, IMO, is what kills community support and FOSS projects in the long run

Just to be clear, I came here and opened this issue not to complain but because I care about Element and I don't want this to happen again in the future to somebody else. I opened the issue (Squirrel/Squirrel.Mac#280), as you suggested, for the same reason. I'm here to help improving a software we all love and make my (small) contribution to FOSS.

As a coder myself I understand sometimes the time is little so thank you for the time you spend reading and replying. 🙏

[t3chguy]

if you plan to do something to avoid this issue to happen again in the future

Unfortunately that's not up to me, I'm just an IC - cc @langleyd

[openforfuture]

These are also other issues that make life harder than it should be:

So, version 1.11.57 does Work, for example, with Big Sur?

It worked on Catalina even!

Do you know where I can download the dmg file of that version?

• in the main website there's no link to download older versions
• from github is not possible to download compiled files
• spending some time searching on the web I found https://packages.element.io/desktop/install/macos/index.html
• the above list cannot be ordered by date, which improves complexity...yes, sounds stupid but it does

Big Sur is EOL and is no longer supported by us as per our support policy
https://endoflife.date/macos https://github.com/element-hq/element-web#supported-environments

Why there's no way to stop it from update?

There is, via config.json

Which part of config.json is the value for disable Auto Updates and where is that file?

This also took me a bit of research to find out:

• you have to create a new config.json file inside /Users/$HOME/Library/Application\ Support/Element/
• inside the file you have to put
  { "update_base_url": "" }

or just download this:
config.json

[t3chguy]

in the main website there's no link to download older versions

https://github.com/element-hq/element.io is the issue tracker for that site

the above list cannot be ordered by date, which improves complexity...yes, sounds stupid but it does

Contributions welcome - https://github.com/element-hq/packages.element.io

[xenorama]

installed Element 1.11.57 on Big Sur and App no longer crashes, thank you.
https://packages.element.io/desktop/update/macos/index.html

[spluess]

Well, time to say goodbye and move on. It was nice as long as it lasted. As someone already mentioned, the way this was handled just makes it almost impossible to continue to recommend on keeping using and/or even paying for it.
(from a technical side so far I can't find any indication from the Electron folks that wouldn't support BigSur. Seems that there must be something else causing the incompability).