Use gunpowder for rivtech ammo #17140
Conversation
Made homemade RivTech ammunition use gunpowder instead of oxidizer.
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Caseless ammunition doesn't use powder-type propellant. It just can't. It uses something more similar to a plastic explosive compound. The core issue at hand here is that we lack the means of having dangerous failure states when crafting, so producing gunpowder has been taken off the table until we have such a system. We get a system like that in place, gunpowder will become (dangerously) craftable once more. |
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But shouldn't it use some kind of non-renewable resource if normal ammo requires it? It's weird that such advanced ammo can be produced in any amount from basic resources and yet normal ammo still requires scavenging for gunpowder. |
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Please go back and read my original comment. The only reason you have to scavenge for gunpowder right now is because it isn't craftable.The only reason it isn't craftable right now is because we currently lack a system to implement stuff like your chemistry lab exploding in your face. Once we have a system for stuff like that we will be able to re-implement the ability to manufacture gunpowder. |
It shouldn't use common ingredients (oxy powder) though. Another option that is better than status quo is moving the recipe to the "craftable gunpowder" mod.
Honestly, that would be a horrible game mechanic that would make gunpowder crafting a tedious mess. |
Plastic explosives don't require anything particularly rare or unusual to produce, and I'm not a fan of artificial scarcity.
This is a very good idea.
I don't think I understand what you mean by 'a tedious mess'? |
If failure on crafting could result in an explosion, you'd need to prepare for it. |
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Right on, I understand what you meant now. I also don't really have any problem with it. If you want to make smokeless powder, you really should have to have the proper tools and take all necessary precautions in order to be safe. I'd still like to have it as an option one day. Just think of all the amusing posts we'd get to read from people who didn't take the safe route. |
We'd need chain explosions first for it to get properly amusing. |
Well, the ozidizer powder is also a powder, so I don't see that as a major problem. :P
That's a solid idea, though. |
You're being intentionally obtuse; a cake contains flour and sugar, yet it isn't a powder. |
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In case someone wants to read about the history of caseless ammunition development in wiki form: |
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Back to the 'chem set exploding in your face' problem. I don't think it should be an explosion per se (that can damage stuff not on player's square). Just some damage to random body parts, with a possible preference for arms. |
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On Jun 11, 2016 12:08 AM, "Zireael07" [email protected] wrote:
The kind of mishap we're talking about had a tendency to blow up the entire |
This obviously depended on the scale of the production and most likely only happened when producing industrial amounts and not a pound of powder for a few bullets. |
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The explosion from failing to make 100 units of gunpowder shouldn't be any bigger than the explosion from tossing 100 units of gunpowder into a fire. There's a finite amount of energy readily available in the chemicals. |
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In theory you can do small batches yes, but have you looked at the process? (from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrocellulose)
In other words, the process took at least 16 days per batch. This part would get you raw nitrocellulose, further prepping and assembling into ammunition would take even longer. Your options are either to make large (and therefore dangerously sized) batches, or have multiple small batches constantly in progress, multiplying the amount of work needed many times. I'm also skeptical of the claim that a pound of nitrocellulose would be relatively safe, that's plenty to kill someone even if not carefully packed into a bomb. *By the way, when it says "safe" here, it means "the first process not subject to spontaneous combustion and explosion", it is still the case with this process that a simple mistake like dropping something or getting the acid concentration slightly wrong can result in a large fire or explosion. |
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Why should a crafting explosiona kill everyone within 100 meters when Mininukes do not? |
Bugs don't justify other bugs? |
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Obsolete via #17146 |
Bootleg caseless ammunition was previously made using oxy_powder and incendiary, instead of gunpowder like normal bullets use. After gunpowder was changed to be not craftable, this has led to the strange situation where at sufficiently high skill levels, the most high tech ammunition is actually the easiest to craft, since it doesn't depend on a non-renewable resource.
This simply changes the oxy_powder requirement to gunpowder.