|| 4" Casters make moving a cart harder.

[epsimpson]

Describe the bug

My strength 6 character uses a foldable cart he calls "gopher". After updating to the newest experimental, he can no longer pull the cart except on streets, and even on streets my messages gets spammed by, "It takes some time to move the gopher."

Removing the casters lets me once again pull the cart over grass, and over roads without spam messages.

Attach save file

Holcomb-trimmed.tar.gz

Steps to reproduce

1. Open save. Character should already have an EMPTY foldable cart grabbed.
2. Drag the wheeled cart around. See lots of, "It takes some time to move the gopher" messages, and you strain yourself pulling it on the grass.
3. Remove casters.
4. Drag the cart around. You will have no problem dragging it over the street or the grass to the left.

Expected behavior

Wheels make a cart easier to move over pavement, dirt and short grass.

If || no longer means "like new," it still means nothing more than a wobbly wheel, which doesn't make it more difficult to move than no wheels at all.

Screenshots

No response

Versions and configuration

• OS: Linux
  • OS Version: Distributor ID: Ubuntu; Description: Ubuntu 20.04.6 LTS; Release: 20.04; Codename: focal;
• Game Version: 0.G-2161-g1484ebeee9 [64-bit]
• Graphics Version: Tiles
• Game Language: System language []
• Mods loaded: [
  Dark Days Ahead [dda],
  Disable NPC Needs [no_npc_food],
  Portal Storms Ignore NPCs [personal_portal_storms],
  No Fungal Growth [no_fungal_growth],
  Bionic Professions [package_bionic_professions],
  Sly's Skill Antirust [slysskillantirust]
  ]

Additional context

No response

[epsimpson]

I tried it with ++ health casters. Still easier to drag a cart over pavement without them.

[anoobindisguise]

Question, do you hear it making "a scraping noise" when it is without any caster wheels?
The if statement in grab.cpp checks for grabbed_vehicle->valid_wheel_config() otherwise the strength requirement is always 10x higher (if it has wheels, it checks for its current traction like the standard vehicle offroading calc). It's possible it's passing the valid_wheel_config() check despite not having any wheels.

[Inglonias]

A save file would be incredibly useful for diagnosing this issue. You can generate a minimized save archive from the info section of the debug menu while in-game.

I can't read, apparently.

[worm-girl]

Could this be related to #64867 ?

[Inglonias]

I'd put money on it, yeah.

[epsimpson]

Sorry, I had to step out after submitting this.

No scraping noise, you probably know that by now. Didn't know about #64867, it explains the "takes some time" messages spamming the message box. If I were a survivor with these crafting skills, I'd make some larger wheels to replace the casters (still single tile), rubberize them to reduce road noise, and find a way to muffle that shopping cart rattle.

[worm-girl]

@anoobindisguise you may want to take a look at this.

[anoobindisguise]

Sorry, I had to step out after submitting this.

No scraping noise, you probably know that by now. Didn't know about #64867, it explains the "takes some time" messages spamming the message box. If I were a survivor with these crafting skills, I'd make some larger wheels to replace the casters (still single tile), rubberize them to reduce road noise, and find a way to muffle that shopping cart rattle.

OK so the issue is that the wheel-less shopping cart is somehow being considered as a wheeled vehicle otherwise it would be subject to wheelless behavior. I know that a wreck was being considered as wheelless so something is going wrong in vehicle.cpp OR I am misapplying a function from vehicle.cpp in grab.cpp

[anoobindisguise]

No, after testing it it looks like the shopping cart is making a scraping noise after all while wheel-less.
I'll look over the wheeled formula and make sure that str_req never is multiplied by >10.
It looks like the message log for the sound doesn't display. But the noise scales with how heavy the thing is, so if you have a phenomenally heavy vehicle that scrapes and you have 99999 strength to drag it you deafen yourself. Filled a shopping cart with debug pocket universes full of enormous lead ingots to test that.

[anoobindisguise]

I'm having some trouble replicating this issue. I've never found an instance where a shopping cart got easier to move after removing the casters.

[github-actions]

This issue has been automatically marked as stale because it has not had recent activity. It will be closed if no further activity occurs. Thank you for your contributions. Please do not bump or comment on this issue unless you are actively working on it. Stale issues, and stale issues that are closed are still considered.

[Golfavel]

I'm having some trouble replicating this issue. I've never found an instance where a shopping cart got easier to move after removing the casters.

Cape Yakataga-trimmed.tar.gz
Game Version: bf5848d [64-bit]

Notice the move/speed indicator. When moving the top cart (that has casters), it's defaulting to 180 on the road, occasionally going up to 380; on the nearby grass field, it varies between 400-600. Without casters, it defaults to 100 (which is also the movement speed when not dragging anything), occasionally jumping up to 300.

[github-actions]

This issue has been automatically marked as stale because it has not had recent activity. It will be closed if no further activity occurs. Thank you for your contributions. Please do not bump or comment on this issue unless you are actively working on it. Stale issues, and stale issues that are closed are still considered.

[esotericist]

i haven't loaded the above attached save, but i'm personally experiencing it on a build from just a few days ago. lightly loaded (like, all of 9kg contents) cart got stuck immediately on grass, removed casters, was able to drag it just fine.

after i tried removing the casters, i was able to confirm the cart was easier to drag on asphalt without them, too.

Nitro-trimmed.tar.gz

- OS: Linux
    - OS Version: Distributor ID: Ubuntu; Description: Ubuntu 23.10; Release: 23.10; Codename: mantic; 
- Game Version: 0.G-4845-gc5c85bd9bb [64-bit]
- Graphics Version: Tiles
- Game Language: English [en]
- Mods loaded: [
    Dark Days Ahead [dda],
    Disable NPC Needs [no_npc_food],
    Portal Storms Ignore NPCs [personal_portal_storms],
    Slowdown Fungal Growth [no_fungal_growth],
    Magiclysm [magiclysm]
]

[esotericist]

also i'd like to add while putting this on the proposed blocker list that four inch casters should be expected to move at least somewhat across grass and dirt. maybe not truly difficult terrain while extremely heavily loaded, but i sure as heck pull things with similar wheelbases across grass, dirt, and even up/down hills all the time iRL, and i am far from typical strength.

[UNOwenWasMe]

Experiencing the exact same issue, cannot drag my shopping cart over grass at all if there's even just ~10kg in it. It literally just says I lack the strength to drag it and it refuses to move. If I take some stuff out, I can drag it, but I strain myself and I get a lot of pain. From dragging a shopping cart.

[Inglonias]

Can you reproduce the issue? Ideally, provide a save file as well. You can generate a minimized save archive from the debug menu

[esotericist]

Can you reproduce the issue? Ideally, provide a save file as well. You can generate a minimized save archive from the debug menu

how many saves do we actually need for this? i count three, including mine.

[Inglonias]

That is a fair point.

@UNOwenWasMe I take it back. You don't need to provide us a save file if you don't want to.

[RenechCDDA]

Very funny bug. Anything below 100kg can be dragged for free, wheels or not.

09:15:03.451 ERROR : Cataclysm-DDA\src\grab.cpp:106 [grabbed_veh_move] str_req before 0-wheel pull is 0
09:15:04.216 ERROR : Cataclysm-DDA\src\grab.cpp:108 [grabbed_veh_move] str_req after 0-wheel pull is 0
09:16:24.240 ERROR : Cataclysm-DDA\src\grab.cpp:106 [grabbed_veh_move] str_req before 0-wheel pull is 0
09:16:24.865 ERROR : Cataclysm-DDA\src\grab.cpp:108 [grabbed_veh_move] str_req after 0-wheel pull is 0
[ Casters reinstalled ]
09:16:32.425 ERROR : Cataclysm-DDA\src\grab.cpp:90 [grabbed_veh_move] base str_req is 0
09:16:33.208 ERROR : Cataclysm-DDA\src\grab.cpp:92 [grabbed_veh_move] mc is 0
09:16:33.793 ERROR : Cataclysm-DDA\src\grab.cpp:101 [grabbed_veh_move] str_req before traction is 1
09:16:34.305 ERROR : Cataclysm-DDA\src\grab.cpp:104 [grabbed_veh_move] str_req after traction is 8

[epsimpson]

Very funny bug. Anything below 100kg can be dragged for free, wheels or not.

That's not a bug. 100kg isn't heavy.
That's not this bug, because you say it happens wheels or not.
This bug is that a grown person able to routinely two-hit brutes, can't move a brand new empty shopping cart across a smooth floor without hurting herself. Can you imagine the lawsuits if that were accurate? The fact that it's easier to move a cart with no wheels tells you the bug is in the wheels.

[RenechCDDA]

It is absolutely a bug that a human being exerts no force whatsoever to push a 99kg solid block of steel across asphalt. That will be changing.