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Ask if benches have armrests #5664
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I don't see the useful purpose fulfilled. The backrest quest was already pretty borderline, I think I wouldn't accept it if it was added today. If I remember correctly, I only accepted the backrest quest because someone directly created a PR for that and because back then, neither the "does this still exist?"-quest nor the things overlay existed. So, it was argued that the quest is at least good for checking whether the bench still exists. This doesn't apply anymore, but no point in removing that quest now. |
Just for context, the OP has been told by a UK Local Authority that they need to catalogue bench assets with their accessibility (backrest, armrest). Having it in StreetComplete would be a powerful way to answer their inevitable next question, "but how do we get people to survey this info?". It could then be another step on the way to getting Local Authorities to stop hoarding data and simply OSM it |
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Please note, I have no affiliation with any council or organisation that is directly involved in planning or providing seating. As @jnicho02 notes above, I took part a while ago in volunteer tasks organised by my local council to survey the benches in the area. They had not got a clear record of the infrastructure in their area and so wanted people to physically visit locations and identify where there were benches. Amongst the information we were asked to collect was whether the benches had backrests and whether they had armrests. Since then my council has commissioned an accessibility assessment into their provision of facilities including seating and this contains some interesting information on benches which I will attempt to summarise here:
I'm not sure if the report itself has been shared publicly, but it draws heavily on references to BS 8300‑1:2018, and Inclusive Mobility - A Guide to Best Practice on Access to Pedestrian and Transport Infrastructure - GOV.UK. I've also been told anecdotally that in surveys, older people have cited having nowhere to sit as a barrier to going out. I would argue that the current simple tagging of whether a bench has a backrest and armrests in OSM provides very valuable accessibility information to prospective users of benches and to organisations involved in planning and assessing their provision of benches. With the sort of decent coverage of this information that a StreetComplete quest could achieve, resources could provide people with information from OSM about the suitability of available seating on their journeys and visits. To me, this sort of purpose is in line with the existing quests geared towards gather accessibility information on resources. |
Hmm, interesting. Inclusive Mobility - A Guide to Best Practice on Access to Pedestrian and Transport Infrastructure - GOV.UK mentions armrests on page 102:
BS 8300‑1:2018 mentions armrests on page 50:
Although, I have to note, that the mention of armrests is almost a side-note compared to the many other things described in these documents: Height of the bench sitting area, height of the backrest, "type" of bench (perch seats, bench, benches that are actually rather seats with armrests next to each other, ...) And the use case for all of this seems to be really mostly statistics, as I can't imagine someone searching for specific bench features on a smartphone. |
There are indeed many things that could be captured about benches but many would require measurements, which is rather too specialist for many mappers. For now, I believe the simple information of "has a backrest" and "has armrests" is of demonstrable use. I am envisaging cases such as maps showing the type of bench with different icons, or enabling people to select which sorts of bench to include. This is similar to current usage of things like cycle parking information - stands, wheelbenders etc. Of course, there's also the use cases I haven't imagined yet. There's always a bit of a chicken and egg situation with such data. |
Fantastic @bompstable. I fully agree with this! And as I mentioned in previous reports—something that's extremely easy to verify in-person, hard to tell by satellite. :) Side Note: I just checked my "backrests" number in StreetComplete—and I've mapped 86 so far! Plus a quest like this would give me another excuse to add and sit down on every single one!
Hmmm... I find it enjoyable to map + feels like important data too. For example, it helps differentiate between: (I find that 1st type tends to exist a lot near sports too. Where the 2nd type tends to exist along walkways.) And even for a non-handicapped person, the :
Yeah. There's already some that show different icons for If this armrest tagging became more popular (current 5k->1 million like backrests!) then perhaps that can be adjusted too. :) When I see little different icons/colors/patterns on the map I've never seen before, it makes me click on it + look deeper... then I stumble upon extra tags I never even KNEW existed! Then in future satellite/armchair mapping, I tend to add that extra info at step 1! :)
Yeah, that's how I feel too. Like if it gets added as a preset in iD, it makes it more visible, so more likely to be tagged. (Like yesterday, I ran across an odd one. Field Hockey = a preset, but Lacrosse = no. Field Hockey = ~5.4k uses. Lacrosse = ~600 uses.) We get a great quest added in here like this "armrest" one, and slowly, incrementally, I suspect the |
I was curious to see how this would be implemented so have created the above pull request. |
Maybe having backrest and armrest quests but disabled by default would make sense? So only people actually interested in topic would get them? And people not into it would not get poor effort-to-value quests? |
These quests are not complicated technically, though there is burden for translators. |
I've tried to explain the value of this quest in my previous comments. I would question the argument that this is poor effort-to-value as it is very low effort and may provide important information for those with restricted mobility. People can hide quests that they aren't interested in, but quests that are hidden by default may never be discovered. The way I've implemented this only requires two new strings so hopefully isn't too much of a burden to translate. |
I like these kind of low-value, low-effort quests, because it stimulates me to add these items to the map. Every bench added to the map in the Things overlay results in 1 and hopefully 2 quests by which I can earn stars :) Same for fire hydrants, trees, recycle bins, drinking water sources, etc.
I'm translating SC to Dutch, and find it very little effort to translate a few strings each time a new version is released. |
Based on: It looks like
added since 2018. So it's more than 1/5th of all I suspect adding
Exactly! Me too! :) And like westnordost said in his initial reasoning for "enabling the Complete Side Note: While I was exploring a few days ago, I was walking towards a sidewalk:
then began following it around the apartments. Then I stumbled across:
Because I randomly stumbled across StreetComplete's "
I took a photos and made note of it. When I got back home, I made sure to add all 3 steps in ID, then used my photos to add relevant info. Again, didn't even know it was a possibility in OSM until I ran across it in the wild. Now, I'll go out of my way to take photos or pay extra attention! |
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I finally rejected this quest suggestion. Sorry for contemplating it so long. See #5673 (comment) |
General
Affected tag(s) to be modified/added: armrest
Question asked: Does this bench have armrests?
Checklist
Checklist for quest suggestions (see guidelines):
Ideas for implementation
Element selection:
amenity=bench
andarmrest !=*
Metadata needed:
I don't believe any metadata is needed.
Proposed UI:
Although this is a simple question with a yes/no answer, one potential confusion is that the answer to this question should be "yes" regardless of the number of armrests that a bench has. It may be useful to include some example pictures for which the yes answer applies. Examples for which the answer is yes:
Cases where the user cannot answer would likely be the same as for the existing "Does this bench have a backrest?" quest and some may no longer apply if the backrest quest is shown first.
Note, I'm interested in implementing this myself but want to first check it would be accepted.
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