"Does it offer gluten free food?" Quest

[peternewman]

General

Affected tag(s) to be modified/added:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:diet:gluten_free

It's becoming increasingly popular as a diet, as well as being vital for survival for Coeliacs.

Checklist

Checklist for quest suggestions (see guidelines):

• 🚧 To be added tag is established and has a useful purpose
• 🤔 Any answer the user can give must have an equivalent tagging (Quest should not reappear to other users when solved by one)
• 🐿️ Easily answerable by everyone from the outside but a survey is necessary
• 💤 Not an overwhelming percentage of quests have the same answer (No spam)
• 🕓 Applies to a reasonable number of map data (Worth the effort)

Ideas for implementation

This can be implemented exactly the same way as the existing dietary quests

[HolgerJeromin]

Quite hard to survey.
I remember a small sign in the paper menu in very few restaurants...

[westnordost]

See holger. It is extremely rare that restaurants put up signs for this. People with gluten intolerance will know themselves what to avoid.

Also, you skipped on looking at if it is applicable to the new quest suggestions guidelines, this alone is already a reason for rejection.

[rhhsm]

With the increasing number of diet quests, could it be an idea to combine them into one, with a list of check boxes that can be ticked for each diet available? There's a list here that may inspire https://www.lufthansa.com/bg/en/special-meals

[peternewman]

See holger. It is extremely rare that restaurants put up signs for this. People with gluten intolerance will know themselves what to avoid.

In my experience its often got an equivalent level of signage to vegan (and to some extent vegetarian), i.e. just small notes against some items on the menu. Aside from specifically that diet only restaurants.

I think they often need to know about the risk of cross-contamination, so some vegetables say may be gluten free by default, but if they've used the same pan to cook them in, a Coeliac would still need to avoid them, so only places with signed GF meals can probably be guaranteed safe.

Also, you skipped on looking at if it is applicable to the new quest suggestions guidelines, this alone is already a reason for rejection.

Sorry, I just copied #2990 and changed the tag name.

With the increasing number of diet quests, could it be an idea to combine them into one, with a list of check boxes that can be ticked for each diet available? There's a list here that may inspire https://www.lufthansa.com/bg/en/special-meals

A new issue may be better for this. I suspect the challenge might be the quest wouldn't disappear until you'd answered everything, and some potential complication around resurvey etc. FWIW I suggested the same thing about combining crossing quests (I think) and it was felt it wasn't a good idea, sorry I can't find the link right now.

[smichel17]

In my experience its often got an equivalent level of signage to vegan

+1, in the last few years, GF options have become much more common, driven in part by a growing number of people who do not have Coeliac disease choosing to eat gluten-free. I think it's a good candidate for a disabled-by-default quest. And I have a personal interest, since several of my friends are gluten-free.

[Lee-Carre]

While I agree that this wasn't proposed properly, I also see the value of such a quest (and would prefer to have a single multiple-choice quest for all diet:* tags).

In Jersey, an increasing number of eating establishments clearly indicate GF on the menu (a copy of which is often posted outside). It's now comparable to vegetarian / vegan.

[peternewman]

Also, you skipped on looking at if it is applicable to the new quest suggestions guidelines, this alone is already a reason for rejection.

Sorry, I just copied #2990 and changed the tag name.

FWIW I've now fixed this aspect in the original issue post.

Mostly just to note having come back from Italy, at least in the tourist areas GF is often better signposted than vegetarian/vegan, with big signs saying gluten free pizza/pasta, whereas confirming v/vg usually requires reading the menu; so there's further real-world experience that it's well signed (at least in some places).

People with gluten intolerance will know themselves what to avoid.

You could also say the same for that about vegetarian/vegan/Kosher @westnordost .

[ScharadaValcta]

because of duplicate #6077 here

A gluten free diet is not a decision it a disability.
I am affected myself and would like to be able to map this because it is very often the case that you can't eat anything gluten-free in the restaurant. (sometimes only a small salad is an option).

I'm primarily interested in being able to simply search a menu to see which restaurants are even possible.
That would make it easier for me and my friends.

I don't like the idea of combining the diet quests because I don't know what the definition of kosher or halal is.

I would be happy if there was one quest and it was disabled by default.

[meiphoo7-Mae]

Apparently this matter seems to be less simple than it looks like. According to the wiki there are (currently) 15 different diets that are supported by OSM and 9 of those are documented.
Which means that to support this people here are opting for a long list with 15 choices? Or perhaps 15 new quests?
I've had extensive education in biology so I know what each of these 15 choices mean, and therefore I can provide responsible answers. But the majority of the general public?

Nah,... this is going to be a disaster waiting to happen. I predict that people are just going to give a random answer in order to get rid of the quest(s) or even worse: to inflate the gamification element.
Also I can produce another 10 diets that are required for certain types of diseases so it is probably a matter of time before the list in the wiki starts to expand.
And what happened to this quote from the main page:
"To make the app easy to use, quests are limited to those answerable by asking simple questions." (italics added by me)

And how about liability? Certain things are omitted because it is considered high risk (even in SCEE). Now THIS is high risk. What if things go wrong?
Because these tags are supported by OSM I'm not opposed to it at all but should it be made this easy accessible to uninformed people by putting it in an app like SC?

BTW: Where I live the real good and big restaurants have usually (not always) a statement like: "if you have special dietary needs, please inform us beforehand".

[mnalis]

TL;DR: it makes sense to do this quest as simple yes/no quest (just like the other diet quests) as it is nowdays popular and useful enough. But not merging all of diet quests in one big "combined" quest.

---

"To make the app easy to use, quests are limited to those answerable by asking simple questions." (italics added by me)
I've had extensive education in biology so I know what each of these 15 choices mean, and therefore I can provide responsible answers. But the majority of the general public?

I agree here; if it were added, it should be a simple separate yes/no quest. Multiple-choice quest would be much harder to answer (as you'd have to list all possibilities, and as noted, it requires much work and knowledge, making the "combined" quest all but impossible to use to vast majority of mappers).
OTOH, mappers enabling only the quest they are interested in (e.g. diet:kosher) is much more likely, as it is not only more interesting to the user, but is also much easier to do, and thus much more likely to actually be solved.

Which means that to support this people here are opting for [...] 15 new quests?

Not really, as:

• not all 15 of them are even properly documented,
• some don't make much sense (E.g. diet:non-vegetarian=yes is not much different than diet:vegeterian=no to data consumer),
• some are just further subdivisions of vegan (e.g. diet:fruitarian) or vegeterian (e.g. diet:lacto_vegetarian or diet:ovo_vegetarian) or closely related but not-quite vegetarian (e.g. diet:pescetarian) or
• some are less important (e.g. diet:meat=yes, which should better be expressed as cuisine=* for the usefulness it has), and also
• some of them don't yet have a significant use in the OSM.

But yes, it should be possible that some other diet quest (disabled by default, as other are) is added in the future if their usefulness and popularity warrants so.

According to the wiki there are (currently) 15 different diets that are supported by OSM and 9 of those are documented.

Yes. But of those 9, we already support top 4, and 5th in line (by usage) is diet:gluten_free. Also, since this issue was opened, its usage has more then doubled in size, to almost 7k (with 4th which SC has implemented, being similarly sized at 11.5k). Also, as failure to follow this dietary requirement lead to immediate health problems, it is arguably more valuable data then mere preference-based foods (like kosher, halal, and many vegeterian etc).

So I'd inclined to include it in SC (and I offer to do the PR myself, unless somebody else wants to do their first quest, which this is good candidate for -- in which case I offer my help to them with implementing it, should they need it when they try making their first quest contribution).

And how about liability? Certain things are omitted because it is considered high risk (even in SCEE). Now THIS is high risk. What if things go wrong?

Ummm, I'm not sure what you meant here?
Surely, things like possible mistaggings of fire hydrant data or AEDs are higher risk (and waaay more time critical for their data consumers), yet we have quests for them.

The biggest "risk" I can see with wrongly tagged diet:gluten_free=yes is that potential customer will be led to some restaurant believing they have gluten-free food, only to find out when looking at the menu / talking to the waiter that they don't; and thus having to go to another restaurant. In other words, it is as "risky" as wrongly tagged opening_hours (which would have exactly the same result).

BTW: Where I live the real good and big restaurants have usually (not always) a statement like: "if you have special dietary needs, please inform us beforehand".

That can go into description=* if it provides value (i.e. if most other restaurants in the country don't offer that). You'd need SCEE raw tag editor to add such details though. But that is not really relevant to this quest suggestion (also it is unclear whether they mean just prior to ordering, or do you need prior contact/reservation? And does not even imply that they'd be able to honor your requirements anyway even if you stated it beforehand).

[matkoniecz]

I predict that people are just going to give a random answer in order to get rid of the quest(s)

I expect that they would be disabled by default

[westnordost]

Hmm, the difference to vegan, vegetarian, halal and kosher is that one can expect these to be signed. Either explicitly or if you look closely at the menu, which often (but now always) is displayed on the outside of the restaurant. Because it is not always signed outside, these are all disabled by default. (🕵️ Publicly accessible on foot)

For gluten-free diet, would it be expected to be signed at all on the outside?

What to tag if there is no information whatsoever? Wouldn't it then depend on the food served whether it is gluten-free or not? (E.g. café serving only icecream or bistro serving only salads that doesn't have explicit signs or icons in the menu would be gluten-free nevertheless, wouldn't it?)

If one must tag the correct yes/no value instead of having the option to specify that nothing is specified explicitly, then this would not work with (👨‍💻 Users are no experts).

[smichel17]

Hmm, the difference to vegan, vegetarian, halal and kosher is that one can expect these to be signed. Either explicitly or if you look closely at the menu, which often (but now always) is displayed on the outside of the restaurant.

In my experience in the northeast US, these days gluten free is marked on menus about as often as vegetarian or vegan. Sometimes marked GF; other times marked by which items _do_ contain wheat. If not signed, the staff have always been able to tell us which items are GF, if any.

Because it is not always signed outside, these are all disabled by default. (**🕵️ Publicly accessible on foot**) For gluten-free diet, would it be expected to be signed at all on the outside?

Also similar to vegetarian and vegan, it's relatively rare for it to be signed anywhere besides the menu (which is sometimes posted outside). So agreed this quest should be disabled by default.

What to tag if there is no information whatsoever? Wouldn't it then depend on the food served whether it is gluten-free or not? (E.g. café serving only icecream or bistro serving only salads that doesn't have explicit signs or icons in the menu would be gluten-free nevertheless, wouldn't it?)

One thing to clarify: we mean "offers GF options" right? Vs "offers **exclusively** GF options". The former is very common now; the latter exists but is still rare and cannot be assumed. For example, ice cream may have candy mixed in and a salads may include croutons.

If one must tag the correct `yes`/`no` value instead of having the option to specify that nothing is specified explicitly, then this would not work with (**👨‍💻 Users are no experts**).

As above, asking staff has a ~100% success rate for us. Definitely more effort if that is required, but requires social skills, not expertise :)

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[westnordost]

One thing to clarify: we mean "offers GF options" right?

Yes.

Trace amounts? I thought gluten intolerance is an... uh.. intolerance, not an allergy. Like e.g. lactose intolerance.

Scanning through the wikipedia article, I didn't see that trace amounts could be harmful but that gluten intolerance is a hypersensitivity (not an allergy) towards gluten, which (if gluten is consumed nonetheless) results in a chronic inflammation in the small intestines with all the health issues this entails (Coeliac disease).

[smichel17]

Sorry, I have confused myself. I actually have 3 gluten free friends. The third has a wheat allergy (acquired due to a leaky gut), and in my head I group them with the celiac friend as "no gluten/wheat, period". But they are different conditions and a wheat allergy is probably not common enough to worry about for the sake of the quest. I'll edit out that paragraph in a moment to avoid confusion. I think the rest of the comment still stands.

On January 10, 2025 12:03:17 PM UTC, Tobias Zwick ***@***.***> wrote: > One thing to clarify: we mean "offers GF options" right? Yes. Trace amounts? I thought gluten intolerance is an... uh.. intolerance, not an allergy. Like e.g. lactose intolerance. Scanning through the wikipedia article, I didn't see that trace amounts could be harmful but that gluten intolerance is a _hypersensitivity_ (not an allergy) towards gluten, which (if gluten is consumed nonetheless) results in a chronic inflammation in the small intestines with all the health issues this entails (Coeliac disease). -- Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: #3031 (comment) You are receiving this because you commented. Message ID: ***@***.***>

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[mnalis]

As this seems to have been accepted; is someone new (or with lower contribution count than me) interested to do a Pull Request for it?

It is a simple quest (one could basically copy/paste e.g. AddKosher.kt and change a few strings).

You don't even need to know to program in Kotlin for this one, and you can even do it without having Android development installed on your computer; just a GitHub account is sufficient.

We also have nice step-by-step instructions for newcomers in CONTRIBUTING_A_NEW_QUEST.md, and people willing to lend a hand should any problem arise (like myself).

Just leave a comment here if you'd like to give it a try!