PEP 674: Relationship with the HPy project

pep-0674.rst

@@ -284,6 +284,68 @@ known way to emit a deprecation warning only when a macro is used as a
 l-value, but not when it's used differently (ex: as a r-value).
 
 
+Relationship with the HPy project
+=================================
+
+The HPy project
+---------------
+
+The hope with the HPy project is indeed to provide a C API that is close
+to the original API to make porting easy and have it perform as close to
+the existing API as possible. At the same time, HPy is sufficently
+removed to be a good "C extension API" (as opposed to a stable subset of
+the CPython implementation API) that does not leak implementation
+details. To ensure this latter property is why the HPy project tries to
+develop everything in parallel for CPython, PyPy, and GraalVM Python.
+
+HPy is still evolving very fast. Issues are still being solved while
+migrating NumPy, have begun adding support for HPy to Cython. Working on
+pybind11 is starting soon. Tim Felgentreff believes by the time HPy has
+these users of the existing C API working, HPy should be in a state
+where it is generally useful and can be deemed stable enough that
+further development can follow a more stable process.
+
+In the long run the HPy project would like to become a promoted API to
+write Python C extensions.
+
+The HPy project is a good solution for the long term. It has the
+advantage of being developed outside Python and it doesn't require any C
+API change.
+
+The C API is here is stay for a few more years
+----------------------------------------------
+
+The first concern about HPy is that right now, HPy is not mature nor
+widely used, and CPython still has to continue supporting a large amount
+of C extensions which are not likely to be ported to HPy soon.
+
+The second concern is the inability to evolve CPython internals to
+implement new optimizations, and the inefficient implementation of the
+current C API in PyPy, GraalPython, etc. Sadly, HPy will only solve
+these problems when most C extensions will be fully ported to HPy:
+when it will become reasonable to consider dropping the "legacy" Python
+C API.
+
+While porting a C extension to HPy can be done incrementally on CPython,
+it requires to modify a lot of code and takes time. Porting most C
+extensions to HPy is expected to take a few years.
+
+This PEP proposes to make the C API "less bad" by fixing one problem
+which is clearily identified as causing practical issues: macros used as
+l-values.  This PEP only requires to update a minority of C extensions,
+and usually only a few lines need to be changed in impacted extensions.
+
+For example, numpy 1.22 is made of 307,300 lines of C code, and adapting
+numpy to the this PEP only modified 11 lines (use Py_SET_TYPE and
+Py_SET_SIZE) and adding 4 lines (to define Py_SET_TYPE and Py_SET_SIZE
+for Python 3.8 and older). Porting numpy to HPy is expected to require
+modifying more lines than that.
+
+Right now, it's hard to bet which approach is the best: fixing the
+current C API, or focusing on HPy. It would be risky to only focus on
+HPy.
+
+
 Rejected Idea: Leave the macros as they are
 ===========================================