Consider removing upper bounds on dependencies

[zanieb]

Since this is a library, including upper bounds on dependencies can be overly restrictive. Consumers of your library cannot use new major releases of dependencies, even if there are not breaking changes that affect this project. #405 is a good example. Removing upper bounds allows downstream applications using this library to upgrade without a new release of this library.

If you are interested in some content about this, the following blog posts by Henry Schreiner are quite comprehensive:

• Should You Use Upper Bound Version Constraints?
• Poetry Versions

And here are posts from some members of the Python core developer team:

• Semantic Versioning Will Not Save You
• Why I don't like SemVer anymore
• Version numbers: how to use them?
• Versioning Software

I'm happy to contribute this change if you are interested. The diff is quite minimal due to the limited dependencies

diff --git a/pyproject.toml b/pyproject.toml
index f061c37..2905d0f 100644
--- a/pyproject.toml
+++ b/pyproject.toml
@@ -15,8 +15,8 @@ readme = "README.md"
 [tool.poetry.dependencies]
 python = ">=3.7.9,<4"
 lsprotocol = "2023.0.0b1"
-typeguard = "^3.0.0"
-websockets = {version = "^11.0.3", optional = true}
+typeguard = ">=3.0.0"
+websockets = {version = ">=11.0.3", optional = true}
 
 [tool.poetry.extras]
 ws = ["websockets"]

I think keeping upper bounds on your development dependencies is reasonable — ideally those would be pinned anyway.

[tombh]

I actually looked into something very related to this when we were deciding whether to pin lsprotocol: #331 I'd be really interested to get your perspective on what I wrote.

But in short, I'm totally up for including that diff you posted.

[dimbleby]

IMO too much internet ink has been spilled on the topic of upper bounds. The trade-offs are pretty clear, but for an actively maintained project the downsides aren't so bad either way:

• if you don't include upper bounds then every now and then one of your dependencies will release a breaking change

  • this tends to lead to more issue reports, especially from new and/or unsophisticated users who just see that something is broken
  • those who know what they're doing can add their own bounds to handle such cases
  • (of course people sometimes, typically accidentally, release breaking changes at non-major version bumps too - "semantic versioning will not save you". But in practice major version bumps are much the most likely actually to be breaking; and the reality is that semantic versioning often does save you)

• if you include upper bounds then every now and then someone will ask you to make an update eg per build: allow installation with typeguard 4.x  #405

  • the inclusion of upper bounds is more annoying for those users who were capable of dealing with the problems of the alternative choice themselves: they are hard-blocked from updating
  • (I suspect that most of the think-pieces on the subject come from this more advanced group of users, perhaps making their views over-weight in the discussion!)

Either way there's an implicit burden on maintainers: either regularly to lift upper bounds, or to deal with the fall-out when breaking changes are made by dependencies.

Neither of these things happens very often, and for projects that are reasonably active none of their users will be in either of the bad places for very long anyway.

[zanieb]

Thanks for your replies :) I appreciate that this project is active.

IMO too much internet ink has been spilled on the topic of upper bounds.

I agree with that too, but because of Poetry's defaults many libraries include upper bounds resulting in unsolvable dependency trees without consideration.

While I agree there is some fallout when users encounter failures with incompatible dependencies, resolving the users issue is always the same: just install a compatible version. The alternative is that users have no recourse due to the limitations of Python tooling — as you said, they are hard blocked. In projects I've maintained, publishing a release is generally more work than responding to an issue.

There's also effect on the package ecosystem. When you include upper bounds, each published artifact is restricted forever. Although a new release can be made that increases the upper bound, the number of compatible releases is smaller which, in combination with other projects including bounds, can make package resolution quite difficult.

I hope to resolve these kinds of problems at its core, e.g. by improving the Python tooling itself, but until then I cannot justify the inclusion of upper bounds in libraries I publish.

An alternative is to stay on top of upgrading dependencies to reduce the number of overly restricted releases. You could use tooling to increase upper bounds as versions are released (typeguard-4.x was released quite some time ago). I'm not sure what dependabot support for poetry upper bounds is these days.

... deciding whether to pin lsprotocol: #331 I'd be really interested to get your perspective on what I wrote.

I agree with most of what you have there! Especially that pinning lsprotocol specifically makes sense for this library due to its specificity.

[dimbleby]

because of Poetry's defaults many libraries include upper bounds resulting in unsolvable dependency trees without consideration.

In my experience this is a great exaggeration of the number of unsolvable dependency trees out there; but perhaps your experience is different.

However it would not be very consistent of me to note that too much has already been said on this topic, and opine that it does not much matter anyway - and then get into a to-and-fro about it! So I will leave it there.

[zanieb]

I wish it was not a problem I encountered so often :) I appreciate hearing your experience and opinion though!

I don't think much more needs to be said for this library in particular. Whatever the maintainers are most comfortable with seems reasonable, as this package has few dependencies and is probably best installed in isolated environments regardless.

[tombh]

Thanks for the input, it's all great information to help build up a broader and more detailed picture.

And of course happy to continue to hear more views on this.

[tombh]

I think that's reasonable. I'm happy to accept any PRs around this.

[alcarney]

Closing as we no longer have an upper bound on our dependencies