Should KEPs be used for process changes?

[spiffxp]

It was stated during today's contributor experience meeting that KEPs should be used for process changes which was a surprise to me, given that:

• Current KEP documentation seems to avoid mentioning the word process: https://github.com/kubernetes/enhancements#is-my-thing-an-enhancement
• Current KEP documentation seems to frame in terms of user and operator facing changes - https://github.com/kubernetes/enhancements/blob/master/keps/0001-kubernetes-enhancement-proposal-process.md#what-type-of-work-should-be-tracked-by-a-kep
• The Contributor Experience charter doesn't mention the use of KEPs for process changes: https://github.com/kubernetes/community/blob/master/sig-contributor-experience/charter.md#cross-cutting-and-externally-facing-processes
• I've seen major process changes roll out without KEPs including:
  • mandating that everything landing in a release must use a KEP (https://github.com/kubernetes/sig-release/tree/master/releases/release-1.14#what-will-we-do-differently-this-release)
  • the API review process (E2e utils library and E2e Framework links are broken #243, Update api review process mechanics #3261)

/sig pm
/sig contributor experience

FYI @justaugustus @parispittman

[justaugustus]

/assign

[fejta-bot]

Issues go stale after 90d of inactivity.
Mark the issue as fresh with /remove-lifecycle stale.
Stale issues rot after an additional 30d of inactivity and eventually close.

If this issue is safe to close now please do so with /close.

Send feedback to sig-testing, kubernetes/test-infra and/or fejta.
/lifecycle stale

[celanthe]

Hi @spiffxp and @justaugustus --I am working on contribex issue triage, and wanted to circle back as to the status of this PR.

If you have any updates as to where it's at in the process, or if it can be closed or frozen, that would be great.

If this issue needs to be escalated or there is someone else from the PM team I should loop in, please let me know so that I can get this moving again! Thank you so much!

[celanthe]

/kind documentation

[k8s-ci-robot]

@celanthe: The label(s) kind/kep cannot be applied. These labels are supported: api-review, community/discussion, community/maintenance, community/question, cuj/build-train-deploy, cuj/multi-user, platform/aws, platform/azure, platform/gcp, platform/minikube, platform/other

In response to this:

/kind kep

Instructions for interacting with me using PR comments are available here. If you have questions or suggestions related to my behavior, please file an issue against the kubernetes/test-infra repository.

[k8s-ci-robot]

@celanthe: The label(s) kind/kep cannot be applied. These labels are supported: api-review, community/discussion, community/maintenance, community/question, cuj/build-train-deploy, cuj/multi-user, platform/aws, platform/azure, platform/gcp, platform/minikube, platform/other

In response to this:

/kind kep

Instructions for interacting with me using PR comments are available here. If you have questions or suggestions related to my behavior, please file an issue against the kubernetes/test-infra repository.

[cblecker]

And update on this @justaugustus ?

[fejta-bot]

Issues go stale after 90d of inactivity.
Mark the issue as fresh with /remove-lifecycle stale.
Stale issues rot after an additional 30d of inactivity and eventually close.

If this issue is safe to close now please do so with /close.

Send feedback to sig-testing, kubernetes/test-infra and/or fejta.
/lifecycle stale

[justaugustus]

/remove-lifecycle stale

[justaugustus]

/remove-sig pm
/sig contributor-experience architecture
/area enhancements

[lasomethingsomething]

Also following up here—has this been resolved/partly resolved? Or maybe it's referenced elsewhere, in another issue or in docs?

[lasomethingsomething]

Update: @mrbobbytables says this is now being discussed in the #Enhancements Slack channel.

[fejta-bot]

Issues go stale after 90d of inactivity.
Mark the issue as fresh with /remove-lifecycle stale.
Stale issues rot after an additional 30d of inactivity and eventually close.

If this issue is safe to close now please do so with /close.

Send feedback to sig-testing, kubernetes/test-infra and/or fejta.
/lifecycle stale

[mrbobbytables]

In general I do see KEPs being used more for process changes and we probably should update the docs to reflect it. The discussion for adding tooling support for process/policy changes has been started in kubernetes/enhancements#1783.

A recent example of a process change KEP is the Issue Triage KEP. It was first discussed on a few mailing lists with the KEP being the artifact of those discussions.

[fejta-bot]

Stale issues rot after 30d of inactivity.
Mark the issue as fresh with /remove-lifecycle rotten.
Rotten issues close after an additional 30d of inactivity.

If this issue is safe to close now please do so with /close.

Send feedback to sig-testing, kubernetes/test-infra and/or fejta.
/lifecycle rotten

[mrbobbytables]

I've been thinking about this more, and I think it depends on scope.
The triage workflow one required ALOT of input from many different sources. It was good to go through that to make sure everyone's thoughts were gathered.

Other smaller changes like requiring the passcode for zoom, I wouldn't bother with a full blown KEP for it.

[mrbobbytables]

/remove-lifecycle rotten

[justaugustus]

I think where we landed here was "it depends".
The idea of a scope field is being proposed in kubernetes/enhancements#2311.

Let's bring the discussion there, with updated KEP documentation being part of the success criteria for that issue.
/close

[k8s-ci-robot]

@justaugustus: Closing this issue.

In response to this:

I think where we landed here was "it depends".
The idea of a scope field is being proposed in kubernetes/enhancements#2311.

Let's bring the discussion there, with updated KEP documentation being part of the success criteria for that issue.
/close

Instructions for interacting with me using PR comments are available here. If you have questions or suggestions related to my behavior, please file an issue against the kubernetes/test-infra repository.