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Add rendering for leisure=hackerspace #451
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Hi, |
Understandable. Thanks for the reply. |
IMHO this is fair to niche to be rendered for the general propose map so unlikely to be rendered. |
2014-03-31 15:53 GMT+02:00 Rovastar [email protected]:
IMHO niche is key to OSM --- there are only few of these features in the |
Closing. A dedicated icon is unlikely with the low usage. |
2014-06-23 4:41 GMT+02:00 Paul Norman [email protected]:
is the usage low compared to all features existing of this in the real |
I don't know, I didn't particularly need to consider it for this. fwiw, I like hackerspaces. |
2014-06-23 11:05 GMT+02:00 Paul Norman [email protected]:
I was guessing this. I believe that most of us do like them. What I don't |
See also #660. |
2014-06-23 13:36 GMT+02:00 math1985 [email protected]: thank you for referencing this, although it is not exactly the same issue, |
I think rendering the labels of hackerspaces would not harm. I will therefore reopen this issue. Adding an icon to the hackerspace is perhaps a step too far. |
Labels are already rendered it seems: http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/62000567 |
That's the case. |
IMHO 268 occurences ( http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/?key=leisure&value=hackerspace ) is far too low to render a special icon. It would be useful to have example of OSM elements that should display labels (one was mentioned in #451 (comment) - but it was filling entire building so name was rendered anyway). |
2014-09-29 14:32 GMT+02:00 Mateusz Konieczny [email protected]:
I'm not sure if I would base the decision to render a dedicated icon solely |
The problem is that icon for obelisk will be recognisable, but making icon of hackerspace that would be clearly recognisable would be really hard. |
2014-09-29 14:50 GMT+02:00 Mateusz Konieczny [email protected]:
+1, this is another issue to which I agree. Also hackerspaces are quite e |
It is neither widely used nor passed through wiki proposal process. I propose to close this ticket. |
I don't think hackerspaces are a niche thing.
There is quite a good symbol by Eric Steven Raymond: the glider hacker emblem Anyway, just made a PR: #3867 |
Coming back to this topic, I think it would be useful to render leisure=hackerspace in some way. Right now there are ~1.3k such places in OSM, much more than the 200 back in 2014. Also it is questionable to me, that established entities are discriminated against simply because of what they are. leisure=hackerspace is a well-established tag and there are many around. I understand if making a separate icon for every leisure=... item may not be feasible, but simply not displaying them at all is a very bad decision. |
it could use the icon from amenity=social_facility. As they are, this is just an alternative tag somehow, as is highway=cycleway synonymous with highway=path and bicycle=designated |
Rendering it with a blue dot like association/offices would be better than hiding it imho. Can we reopen this to reassess the situation? Or would you rather have a new issue? The wiki lists it as "de facto", used over 1500 times: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:leisure=hackerspace?uselang=en I'm considering to tag it as "office" or something else just to have it on the map, but nobody wants that, right? Edit: Please also take into consideration, that the audience of those hackerspaces is more likely to use OSM than the general public ;) |
Good point actually, there has always been a close connection between the OSM and hacking communities so this decision to not represent that connection seems rather weird. |
Reasons for not rendering this other than the low use volume have been provided in #3867. I particular important:
And keep in mind that our target audience is the potential global map user, we are not a special interest map for groups with strong voices on digital channels. As i wrote in #3867 (comment):
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sent from a phone
On 13 Nov 2023, at 10:04, Christoph Hormann ***@***.***> wrote:
the tag seems to be deliberately non-generic and culture specific. The wiki text is full of definition by example and weasel words like 'normally', 'typically' and 'often'.
if you only render things that occur everywhere on the globe it will lead to significant holes. We also have other culture specific tags like Japanese Baths, Churches, tobacco and alcohol shops, wayside crosses and what not. I can see one would prefer a generic tag applicable to “community run places with technology related services” or similar, but ultimately we use the tags that evolve through our community process, so if the process has led to a specific tag it is not the duty of OpenStreetMap carto to push for a different system without any trace so far.
delineation of the tag is unclear, the tag seems widely used for commercially run places as well as community run places
can you provide evidence this is more of a problem here compared to other fields? Some SEO can be expected for any tag, and it’s more than 1,5 years that the wiki clearly states these should be community run places, so maybe just retag those commercial outliers which do not fit?
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Please don't derail the discussion by making completely unsubstantiated claims about our criteria for rendering and not rendering things. If you disagree with the assertion that the deliberately non-generic and at the same time vague and poorly delineated nature of the tag is causing problems just say so. But stay specific and always assume good faith. For those unfamiliar with tagging and rendering of the features mentioned:
If anyone has insights into changing de facto meaning of Here an incomplete list of other tags partly overlapping in de facto use with
This is not meant to invite discussion on the meaning of those tags, just as a starting point for analysis or working on discussing and improving tagging elsewhere. |
This comment was marked as off-topic.
This comment was marked as off-topic.
As i already said: The list of tags is not meant to invite a tagging discussion here. |
sent from a phone
On 13 Nov 2023, at 13:16, Christoph Hormann ***@***.***> wrote:
As i already said: The list of tags is not meant to invite a tagging discussion here
what I understood from your replies was that the current tag is generally not welcome because it is referring to a specific category of places at the first level where you believe it should be set inside a more generic umbrella tag for easier extendibility, and that it is used for different kinds of places in Cuba and possibly elsewhere than what is described in the wiki?
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I strongly suggest you stop trying to read into my comments what my views are on how things should be mapped. At this stage the only meaningful subject of discussion here would be any new information on changes in the use and de facto meaning of the tag that would warrant re-evaluating the possibility to render it in some form. Should the use for places operated for profit have reduced more recently that would indeed be something good to know. At a quick look i cannot see if that is the case. |
I just noticed that the standard renderer does not label leisure=hackerspace in the map. The bike map does render the label. Maybe it might nice to have the names of hackerspaces also in the standard map.
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