Unified rendering of healthcare objects

[kvlahromei]

Hi,

currently amenity=doctors, amenity=hospital, shop=optican, ... are covered in the current style.
I recommend to add further healthcare=* objects as there are esp. in big cities more complex clinic / campus areas that would benefit from a more detailed (but also balanced) rendering of that institutions.

For example here in Rostock we are currently hiding this details
.

It would be great, if we can present this POIs in the same pink tone (but without icons) as the doctors, veterinarian, ...

(This was already suggested in #1981, #763 some years ago. But I see a growing popularity / more precise tagging since that time)

[HolgerJeromin]

Looking at the list i could imaging some (birthing_center, midwife, blood_donation, physiotherapist, psychotherapist, rehabilitation) can have a healthcareColor dot. But not everything (for example blood_bank is no place to go).

This issue could get an meta issue like #108

[kocio-pl]

This one could be meta, you just need to make a list. 😄

[Matthias84]

Ok, so listing what needs to be done:

new, with pink cross/dot and maybe with name=* or operator=* label for healthcare=...

• yes 0.7k
• birthing_center
• blood_bank
• blood_donation 0.3k
• centre 1.3k
• hospice
• laboratory 0.1k (undocumented)
• rehabilitation 0.3k

conflicting ones, they are covered by some other tags

• clinic 2.2k - amenity=clinic 57k
• dentist 2k - amenity=dentist 54k
• hospital 1.4k - amenity=hospital 140k
• pharmacy 1.9k (undocumented) - amenity = pharmacy 223k
  (following ones by a more general amenity=doctors 78.1k, that might also refer to the 13k healthcare:speciality=* tags...)
• audiologist
• alternative 1.7k
• doctor 6.5k
• midwife 0.2k
• occupational_therapist 0.1k
• optometrist
• physiotherapist 2.1k
• podiatrist
• psychotherapist 0.8k
• speech_therapist 0.2k

(just give me a ping, if you prefer an sep. issue ticket instead or if I embed it to the first post ...)

IMHO it's worth to tune the styling for zoomlevels. For example hospitals are more important than centres or doctors.

BTW: I also started an JOSM preset ...

[kocio-pl]

Separate tickets would be needed later, I think first we need to know the numbers of uses for each case.

[Matthias84]

@kocio-pl Of course, I updated the post above and included the usage provided by taginfo.

Just that you don't get me wrong: I don't want to oppress the healthcare schema in favour of the traditional tags. Instead I like to enable the support, so mappers can also use the healthcare tagging to support new features as midwifes, centres, ... which IMHO would allow an better styling, even if the community starts micromapping every single practitioner and therapist within a city 😉

P.S. Be aware, there are some other "lost ones" 10k objects tagged for example with health_facility=*.

[Matthias84]

Is there anything left I can do to speedup the development of this feature? 😃

[kocio-pl]

Making a PR and rendering examples would certainly be a progress.

[Slawek234]

I prepared a sample icon for the laboratory. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mikroskop9.png

[kocio-pl]

How would it look like in amenity brown or healthcare red in 14 px matrix? I believe that shape is too complex for this size.

[Slawek234]

pink https://s9.postimg.org/3od4ph8bz/pink_14.png
red https://s9.postimg.org/qd2bp42lb/red_14.png
brown https://s9.postimg.org/z835zktxr/brown_14.png
black https://s9.postimg.org/y5szh2lf3/black_14.png

pink simply(probably a bit too simple?) https://s9.postimg.org/vpr62w38v/simply_pink_14.png

[kocio-pl]

It's still 64 px and the last one is too simple, indeed.

[Slawek234]

now they have a max. 14pix
pink https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pink_icon_14_laboratory.png
red https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Red_icon_14_laboratory.png
brown https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Brown_icon_14_laboratory.png
black https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Black_icon_14_laboratory.png

[polarbearing]

Not sure if wikimedia commons wants to get cluttered with lots of design drafts.
You could use the gist function her in github.

[Tomasz-W]

What do you think about change health objects colour to red? For me, it would fit better (e.g. red crosses on ambulances https://www.google.pl/search?client=opera&hs=6a0&biw=1920&bih=981&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=w3qFWqL4GZLfwQLcyJeQAg&q=ambulance&oq=ambulance&gs_l=psy-ab.12...0.0.0.1115112.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1c..64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.cbuGlLSwW1w )
If we are considering dot-rendering for some of these objects, it would be good to distinguish them more from violet shop=* dots (violet is more similar to pink than a red)

[kocio-pl]

I would have to see the test rendering to have any idea about it.

[Tomasz-W]

I've made few simple mockups in Photoshop. At the bottom center I've added triangle with 3 dots for comparsion: current health-pink on the left, red on the right and shop=* violet at the bottom.
(click to view full size!)

Current pink, zoom 18

Red, zoom 18

Current pink, zoom 19

Red, zoom 19

[kocio-pl]

Thanks! I don't feel the urge to change it, so that's up to the rest of community, including preparing PR, but it seems OK and it may make it easier to distinguish.

[Matthias84]

I recommend to start an separated issue, as this is related to healthcare, but isn't tied to this extension of further healthcare objects itself.

BTW: The colors are tied to the culture. While people from Europe / East know red for emergencies, users from America search for pink/green icons https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Proposed_features/Healthcare&oldid=1318635#Rendering

[Slawek234]

The colors are tied to the culture.

In the case of a hospital (in my opinion the most-important but not the most popular health care element) I can not agree. I noticed that in the Christian & Muslim civilization hospital/first aid have red color (Maybe in other civilizations it is different).
I can give the info that the liquid tissue of warm-blooded vertebrates is red.

However, there is a lot of diversity regarding pharmacies!
In Poland, the symbols of pharmacies are usually red or green, although they also happen blue.

Please look https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_European_road_signs
Hospital/First aid and Pharmacy.

[Tomasz-W]

@Matthias84
Refering to #2938 (comment) , I think that only the tags which are 1:1 to certain amenity=* tag (e.g. amenity=dentist and healthcare=dentist) should had the same icon, but all the rest should be rendered just as a red dot with a label.

[Slawek234]

"people from Europe / East know red for emergencies, users from America search for pink/green icons"
Maybe it could somehow connect?
Is there any chance that healthcare could be in different colors, for example:

• Hospital icon red
• doctors, clinics, something similar to what is now pink
• pharmacy icon green color

Unless it would not be consistent?

[Tomasz-W]

I think these objects should be unified by one color.

[kocio-pl]

I also think this should be one color. Green is used for leisure/sport, so don't belong here, but red or current dark pink would be OK for me.

[Tomasz-W]

Sorted list:

Separate icons already:

• healthcare=clinic -> amenity=clinic
• healthcare=dentist -> amenity=dentist
• healthcare=doctor -> amenity=doctors
• healthcare=hospital -> amenity=hospital
• healthcare=pharmacy -> amenity=pharmacy

Dot-rendering candidates list:

• healthcare=alternative
• healthcare=audiologist
• healthcare=birthing_center
• healthcare=blood_bank
• healthcare=blood_donation
• healthcare=centre
• healthcare=chiropractor
• healthcare=laboratory
• healthcare=midwife
• healthcare=occupational_therapist
• healthcare=optometrist
• healthcare=physiotherapist
• healthcare=podiatrist
• healthcare=psychotherapist
• healthcare=rehabilitation
• healthcare=speech_therapist
• healthcare=yes

[Slawek234]

I looked at it quickly https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:healthcare

The amenites are combined with the medicine that I know.
healthcare=clinic -> amenity=clinic
healthcare=dentist -> amenity=dentist
healthcare=doctor -> amenity=doctors
healthcare=hospital -> amenity=hospital
healthcare=pharmacy -> amenity=pharmacy

Why should it be omitted healthcare=laboratory?
Here is a list of these entities for Poland http://kidl.org.pl/index.php?page=lista-laboratoriow
It is subject to similar restrictions as the pharmacy. On the other hand, taking into account many other points that are now and will be visible in the future on the map, healthcare=laboratory could be displayed in the form of a point and this could be a protruding distinction.

Otherwise. Tags are individual choices of local map makers and I should not decide which ones are better or worse. Thanks for the tip @dieterdreist

[HolgerJeromin]

Regarding healthcare=midwife | Midwife.
It looks like it is healthcare=doctor -> amenity=doctors medical specialization Midwife

Midwifes are no doctors. At least not in germany

[Slawek234]

@HolgerJeromin You're right, I've translated it wrong and i was misled by a photo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midwife#/media/File:Midwife_check-up.jpg I did not know that the pregnancy can be led by a midwife.

[kocio-pl]

It's not about efficiency. Changes in openstreetmap-carto.style are possible, but require database reload, so we avoid it, because it creates problems in deployment. There might be a moment where we convert some hstore values into the proper database tables, but this should not be too frequent.

[jragusa]

Ok, I resolved the issue

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/217598504 (polygon)
before

after

https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5799816033 (node)
before

after

[Tomasz-W]

@jragusa Thanks! Anyway, I would like to see some "wider" examples (maybe on lower zooms?) to rate does this colour isn't too prominent comparing to the rest of map.

[jragusa]

z19

z18

z17

z16

[Tomasz-W]

My remarks:

• I think it's a little bit too bright and we can make it minimally darker -> #CC0000
• push amenity=dentist icon to z18 (with earlier dot rendering)
• consider pushing initial zoom level for amenity=clinic/ doctors/ veterinary icons
• consider pushing amenity=hospital initial zoom level to z16 (the only one icons on z15 which I can see are castles and hospitals, but hospitals can be quite dense: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/48.8792/2.3806)

[jragusa]

Following the 2 first remarks
z17

3/ Which zoom level do you propose for amenity=clinic/doctors/veterinary ?
4/ Based on the name tag, several of the hospitals displayed in the link above are incorrectly tagged and should use healthcare tag instead. Moreover it's a specific case and if you look at city of intermediate size, hospital is (probably?) the only one displayed at z15. See for example below the same location than previous pictures (the right one is also incorrectly tagged, it's a blood donation)
z15

[Tomasz-W]

@kocio-pl @meased @Adamant36 What do you think about current initial zoom levels of amenity=hospital and amenity=clinic/doctors/veterinary?

[polarbearing]

hospitals can be quite dense

We might need to check with the French community about this, but there might be some facilities that are a clinic (day treatment) and not a hospital (overnight).

[Tomasz-W]

After some more map checking I propose:

• push amenity=dentist icon to z18 (with dot rendering at z17)
• left amenity=hospital as it is
• push amenity=clinic/doctors/veterinary icons to z17

[kocio-pl]

The levels were ready for doctors and hospital, we have added clinic between them, because we were not sure what is it really, but probably smaller than hospital and bigger than typical doctors. I think it was good decision.

clinic (day treatment) and not a hospital (overnight)

Wow, sounds like a sane definition at last! Could you discuss it on Tagging and add on the wiki?

[polarbearing]

That was discussed on tagging a while ago and is reflected in the wiki:

• A hospital providing in-patient medical treatment ... outpatient care only should be tagged amenity=clinic
• Clinic: A medium-sized medical centre, typically without admission of inpatients.

[kvlahromei]

Will this introduce the mentioned healthcare=* tags at the corresponding zoomlevels, too?

[jragusa]

So what do you suggest for zoom level of amenity=clinic/dentist/doctors/hospital/veterinary ?

@kvlahromei, do you talk about healthcare=clinic/dentist/doctors/hospital ?

They are currently not rendered in my preview. Do I include them too next to amenity equivalent ?

[kvlahromei]

Well, the intention of this ticket is to add support for healthcare=* objects. As later posts say, there are objects that are already covered by amenity=* tags, but some new ones need to be added. Idealy they have the same styling+zoom as existing health object classes. (Personally I prefer not to mix altering the health styling and introducing new hashtags. But of course, this is up to the PR author)

>> Jérémy Ragusa ***@***.***> 22.10.2018 16:56 >>>

So what do you suggest for zoom level of `amenity=clinic/dentist/doctors/hospital/veterinary` ? @kvlahromei, do you talk about `healthcare=clinic/dentist/doctors/hospital` ? They are currently not rendered in my preview. Do I include them too next to `amenity` equivalent ?

…

-- You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: #2938 (comment)

[Tomasz-W]

@jragusa To be precisious: amenity=doctors and veterinary are currently rendered from z17 so there is no change needed anyway, but as amenity=clinic can be bigger or smaller, I think z17 would be more proper for it than a current one z16.

[meased]

What do you think about current initial zoom levels of amenity=hospital and amenity=clinic/doctors/veterinary?

I don't have a problem with the current situation, but in the areas I'm familiar with, they are rather spread out.

[jragusa]

@Tomasz-W ok, I moved amenity=clinic so now clinic, doctors, pharmacy and veterinary are all displayed from z17

Anything else or can I create the PR ?

[Tomasz-W]

@jragusa That's all :)

[kvlahromei]

@jragusa Could you plz include the healthcare=* tag support for this amenities and the new introduced, too? (sorry if this is just an misunderstanding)

[jragusa]

@kvlahromei I missed your previous comment. I added them to the list.

I take this opportunity to recommend a discussion in the tagging list about duplicated tag healthcare - amenity. I notice that several features with healthcare=clinic/dentist/doctors/hospital contain also their equivalent amenity tag.

[kvlahromei]

Thank you!

I pointed out this parallelism at 4th comment as the situation as it is currently in the wild. The healthcare proposal already focused this migration and suggests just to render both tagging schemas. After a while, the legacy tags might be cleaned up and forgotten.