Render amenity=studio #2518
Comments
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A studio used for creating radio or television programmes and broadcasting them. It can also be used to mark a music recording studio. |
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Standard questions for a start:
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The feature is IMO only useful to have its name rendered. |
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What about generic brown dot? |
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sent from a phone
On 20 Dec 2016, at 16:59, Holger Jeromin ***@***.***> wrote:
The feature is IMO only useful to have its name rendered.
Most people does not want to go to a amenity=studio (if this is not a leisure=themepark)
An icon (microphone, TV/movie screen) will let me think about a night club or cinema.
the tag is weakly defined, it can be used for things as different as a tv studio, a radio studio or a music recording studio, it isn't suggested for film studios though. TV Studios are usually quite important and significant for the area they are in (and beyond), radio studios can be smaller and music recording studios come in all sizes.
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You say as if there is something wrong with the tag. If somebody wants to differentiate between radio/tv/music (and film) the subtag studio=* exists and is documented. |
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On 21 Dec 2016, at 01:02, jojo4u ***@***.***> wrote:
You say as if there is something wrong with the tag. If somebody wants to differentiate between radio/tv/music (and film) the subtag studio=* exists and is documented.
yes, IMHO there is something wrong with this tag. There's really no hint in the key/value that this is a tag for tv and radio and music recording studios (quite different, these) but not for film studios, dance studios, art studios, kitchen studios, photo studios, and what ever studio else there might exist. http://taginfo.osm.org/keys/amenity#values
A tv studio is typically a place where visitors are common (attending tv shows etc), it is generally huge, with administration areas, parkings etc., while a music recording studio is a place where visitors/spectators are usually not admitted, and which might more often than not be just a room with certain acoustical properties.
There's no sense in arbitrarily mixing together some very different kinds of studios while keeping others like film studios out.
It is also not clear whether "and broadcasting them" is meant as an exclusive "and" or as "or" / "and or". Should places where only broadcasting is organized get the tag? Is broadcasting required or can "record-only places" get the tag as well?
The studio key is even more confusing, as it includes studios that are not included in amenity=studio http://taginfo.osm.org/keys/studio#values
IMHO this style should not support this tag, because it is not clearly defined thus apparently not consistently applied to similar object, examples:
https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--nU_xR2g8--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/17kom8oradz91jpg.jpg
http://www.studivoxson.com/immagini/studi/voxson-studio5-b.jpg
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In humanitarian style , amenity=studio is rendered with microphone icon. |
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@dieterdreist my understanding that only few cities have recording studios without broadcasting equipment. Your I would change "and broadcasting them" to "and usually broadcasting them" |
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This tag is very diversified, and it would be hard to make an universal generic icon matching all studio types. Another option is to project separate icon for each studio=* tag, but - as someone said here earlier - this information wouldn't be useful for average map user. IMO rendering just studio's name, or it's name with simple dot (rendering amenities without icon as a dots is considered -> #108 ) would be enough. |
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2018-01-10 14:30 GMT+01:00 Tomasz-W <[email protected]>:
This tag is very diversified, and it would be hard to make an universal
generic icon matching all studio types.
+1, this is something that should go to the tagging ML, the tag name is far
too broad, it is defined as "A studio used for creating radio or television
programmes and broadcasting them. It can also be used to mark a music
recording studio.", i.e. it could be a broadcasting or a recording studio
(or both), but there are many other things that can be called "studio", so
a more explicit tag name seems appropriate.
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I think microphone is a common element for all kinds of the studios and we could render it. The one used in HOT is just great: https://github.com/hotosm/HDM-CartoCSS/blob/master/icons/poi/studio.svg |
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I like this icon. |
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https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/209429260 (radio station) brown amenity colour: steeblue (#4863A0) office colour: |
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I vote for office-blue |
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I stand by my previous comments and would not render this feature because it is badly defined, or would at least also look at the studio=* tag (IMHO it is sufficient to only look at studio=* and ignore amenity=studio as it doesn’t add anything)
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I wouldn't say it is badly defined, it's just quite "wide" tag. A common part of all subtypes is audio recording, so studio microphone shape fit here very well. |
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2018-04-11 11:54 GMT+02:00 Tomasz Wójcik <[email protected]>:
I stand by my previous comments and would not render this feature because
it is badly defined
I wouldn't say it is badly defined, it's just quite "wide" tag. A common
part od all subtypes is audio recording, so studio microphone shape fit
here very well.
a television broadcasting studio doesn't have to record audio, and also if
they do, it wouldn't be represented well by a microphone (IMHO). I also
wouldn't think we should display tv studios and small music recording
studios (or podcast studios) with the same priority and starting from the
same zoom levels.
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I think that given this tag is supposed to be used for features that are unlikely to be orientation points, not used by general public and tag itself is problematic for reasons mentioned in #2518 (comment)
I propose to decline rendering. |
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@kocio-pl Can we re-open this issue and try with office-blue generic dot for this feature? It has 5,8k uses, but it's not rendered in any way. |
Nothing has changed IMO since the closing. |
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I am strongly against reopening as this tag is fortunately not clearly accepted by community and as described in #2518 (comment) this tag is really poorly describing reality. If it is office then replacing it with/additionally tagging it with office=* is desirable. |
Actually only you and @dieterdreist have some problems with tagging scheme of this feature. See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:amenity%3Dstudio Reading discussion here and on the Wiki, for other users everything seems to be ok and understandable. There are more people that want this feature rendered, than people against, but you have closed this issue due to your opinion. It's ridiculous. |
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Closing discussion is not the technical problem, you can still discuss it, as it is done now. However the discussion does not seem to be settled yet, so I'm reopening it to show the real state. |
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sent from a phone
On 3. Aug 2018, at 09:45, Holger Jeromin ***@***.***> wrote:
Having (the possiblity to add) a dot should not result in having a dot for all "other" stuff.
I am also still opposing the rendering of amenity=studio
Bad tag name (unclear scope, invites misunderstandings, see previous discussion)
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Looking at it again it still seems hopelessly broad
vague tag name is not helping |
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I will not close it for now, but I am still strongly against rendering this tag. |
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@matkoniecz, what if it was only rendered with studio=type? There's currently 438 uses of studio=audio, 276 uses of studio=video, 587 uses of studio=television, and 957 uses of studio=radio. The numbers are low, but its about how many studios there are overall. Maybe it be an incentive for people to add the tags to amenity=studio, or at least give us a way to revisit it later when the numbers are higher. Because as you say, amenity=studio alone is a little to vague as it is, but maybe not with studio= values added to it. |
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@dieterdreist, @matkoniecz, others: |
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It makes more sense to me, but I have little knowledge about this type of tagging. Is there some discussion on tagging mailing list or documentation on OSM wiki reviewed by people with more knowledge on this topic? |
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Am Di., 23. Okt. 2018 um 06:28 Uhr schrieb jeisenbe <
[email protected]>:
@dieterdreist <https://github.com/dieterdreist>, @matkoniecz
<https://github.com/matkoniecz>, others:
What are your thoughts on rendering amenity=studio only when studio=audio,
studio=video, studio=television, or studio=radio?
I am generally against support of amenity=studio because it is problematic
tagging and should not be encouraged. There is no benefit from this kind of
tagging (grouping all imaginable kinds of studios in one tag and shifting
the meaning on the second level). There is also amenity=tanning_studio for
example. I would encourage people to tag amenity=video_studio,
amenity=radio_studio etc.
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Any improvement about this issue ? I think that rendering the icon for All that remains is to develop an icon for |
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@jragusa, you should create a Wiki page for studio=*. Also if studio=video is going to be rendering it would be useful to render studio=television along with it so there isn't miss-tagging to get it to render. Plus, it would just be useful to have. Although, there's only 870 uses :(. Seems like a lot studios serve multiple purposes, or there would probably be more. |
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@jragusa I have created wiki pages for studio. So far, there are 4 values: audio, radio, video, television. Please look at it and add or correct it. |
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On 22. Nov 2019, at 17:39, geozeisig ***@***.***> wrote:
@jragusa I have created wiki pages for studio. So far, there are 4 values: audio, radio, video, television.
I believe amenity=studio is not a good tagging concept because it is too generic, a video studio is something completely different than a movie studio, an audio studio doesn’t seem a good concept either, is this about radio or recording? A television studio is something quite different as well, why would we want to discern these just by subtags? What about a denstist‘s studio? Architect‘s studio? Artist studio? Dance studio? IMHO we should abandon amenity=studio in favor of more specific main tags...
(sorry for writing all this here and not to the tagging ml, but somehow it felt relevant as points for discourage the tag by not supporting it)
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@dieterdreist I agree with you about the broad definition of Here I propose to only render radio studio ( |
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On 5. Dec 2019, at 12:48, Jérémy Ragusa ***@***.***> wrote:
The difference lies on different colour rendering: office blue for the studio=radio and amenity brown for studio=audio. amenity=studio alone won't be showed and will need the additional studio tag to be considered.
my point is we should move tagging away from amenity=studio as it is too broad to be meaningful and unnecessarily complicated evaluation of this data as well as tagging (you need 2 tags of which one is meaningless). We could have amenity=television_studio / radio_studio / audio_recording_studio / film_studio etc. and make everybody’s life easier
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I don't really understand the opposition to rendering this, at least as equivalent to a non-specific office with a blue dot. This tag is documented, used almost 10k times all around the world, an iD preset, and there are no moderately-used or even formally proposed alternative tagging schemes even though this issue has been open for over 4 years. Even if some mappers have personal issues with the tag, shouldn't the existing predominant use be rendered rather than trying to somehow guide the community to come up with an alternative that may or may not gain traction and hasn't happened so far? |
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On 9 Feb 2021, at 06:44, wmisener ***@***.***> wrote:
I don't really understand the opposition to rendering this, at least as equivalent to a non-specific office with a blue dot.
every office is an office, but what are the common properties of an audio recording studio, a film studio, a tv transmission studio, an architecture studio, a yoga studio?
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This might be enough of a tangent that it needs a new issue, but why not just consider the 'secondary tag' being discussed here a primary tag -- that is, consider it even in the absence of the I'm not sure I buy that offices generally are the same thing as each other, but I agree that it's important that if someone believes a building or room to be an office that they be able to tag it as such with a specific value for that key and have it render at least in a basic fashion. The same could be said for a studio. Indeed, looking at https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/studio#Etymology it seems directly comparable to the usage of the word 'office' or 'workshop' (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:workshop, as another point of reference) as a place outfitted for an intended labour. And it's a digression anyway, since it has been brought up that a tag that specifies the type of studio is possible, either under the Discussion about whether a particular tagging is suitable for consideration as a destination seems to be about the amenity key more generally (and I agree with the sentiments expressed), but not really about whether these kinds of places should receive rendering support. This isn't an issue ticket for a routing software, so whether a POI is a destination or not does not seem relevant. I also think this thread needs a lot less repetition so the issues at the root can actually start getting addressed and progress made, either by closing it permanently or establishing some kind of rendering. |
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IMO, someone should put the effort into tagging the 9,000 or so uses of this with the appropriate studio=* tags. Then revisit this once that happens so specific ones with high enough usage can be rendering instead of treating things like this can be rendered as a general catch icon that people will somehow magically understand when that's clearly not the case. If not, then I say close it. Or really, close it in the meantime anyway. Its not like it can't be reopened when someone actually does something to make it maybe renderable instead of just complaining. (P.S. Obviously don't do it through an "automated" edit. Whatever that means) |
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@ArloJamesBarnes - you make some very good points here. We don't want to render tags because they are widely used, we render them because they are used consistently for something well defined and meaningful. amenity=studio as has been pointed out by several people does not qualify as such (at least not on its own without more specific tags in addition). Furthermore we have several tag groups (like craft=, office= and workshop=*) that overlap and compete with it and there is no clear consensus among mappers about the delineation of these groups. Rendering specific values of studio=* with well defined meaning, broad acceptance and consistent use - either as standalone tag or when in combination with amenity=studio - is a different matter but that would be a matter for separate issues. Closing this again as there does not seem to be a chance for support for this in rendering as suggested. |
amenity=studio should be rendered with and icon and his name
http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/amenity=studio
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