Driver-related jitter in motion test

[Angluca]

Only first row is nothing, it's bug?
fix process test(2 and 4 row) all often shake.

[reduz]

lag on the third one is OK and expected, but when they shake, is it all of
them or only the fixed ones?

On Sun, Jun 7, 2015 at 10:33 AM, Pixeller [email protected] wrote:

[image: image]
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/156404/8024159/30d51954-0d5c-11e5-90f6-b8b44392afb0.png
Only first row is nothing, I think it's bug.
fix process test(2,4 row) all often shake.

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#2043.

[Angluca]

@reduz 2 and 4 row often shake together at the one time.

[allkhor]

Lag here: https://youtu.be/haKOTbxjJWo
Windows 7 x64,godot 1.1x64, Pentium 4-3.2Hz, Ram 2GB, Nvidia 7600GT
How i can help to fix that? Godot it's a great and perspective engine, but with this bug i can't start project.

I tested on several device, and i see this bug on a different config and os.

Lenovo IdeaTab 3500, Android 4.4.2, some lags present..
https://youtu.be/7HYp9pdAZdY

[reduz]

Get a newer GPU

On Sun, Jun 7, 2015 at 2:46 PM, Alexey [email protected] wrote:

Lag here https://youtu.be/haKOTbxjJWo
Windows 7 x64,godot 1.1x64, Pentium 4-3.2Hz, Ram 2GB, Nvidia 7600GT
How i can help to fix that? Godot it's a great and perspective engine, but
with this bug i can't start project.

I tested on several device, and i see this bug on a different config and
os.

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#2043 (comment).

[reduz]

I'm sure you have seen other games running better on your GPU, or even
Unity. The problem is that this specific GPU is more than a decade old and
it has really bad OpenGL support (most stuff made for it are DirectX9).
Immediately nweer nVidia models starting from 8xxx have much better openGL
support, where Godot runs fine.

On Sun, Jun 7, 2015 at 4:45 PM, Juan Linietsky [email protected] wrote:

Get a newer GPU

On Sun, Jun 7, 2015 at 2:46 PM, Alexey [email protected] wrote:

Lag here https://youtu.be/haKOTbxjJWo
Windows 7 x64,godot 1.1x64, Pentium 4-3.2Hz, Ram 2GB, Nvidia 7600GT
How i can help to fix that? Godot it's a great and perspective engine,
but with this bug i can't start project.

I tested on several device, and i see this bug on a different config and
os.

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#2043 (comment).

[allkhor]

Acer Aspire Switch 10, Intel atom Z3745, win8.1.. Jittering
I test on my desktop Intel® Core™ i5 CPU 750 @ 2.67GHz, Nvidia Gtx750ti, Ubuntu x64. Motion more smooth, but lags(Jittering) some times happens..
How about Android, i tested on several device and see motion jittering some times.. Devices not old.
Godot have a native linux editor - killer feature for me and i like concept of engine, simple and power language gdscript, but optimization is very bad. Thank for your work guys!

[reduz]

Can you specify from the devices you test, which ones all the cars are
smooth and which one only the fixed cars jitter?

On Sun, Jun 7, 2015 at 5:57 PM, Alexey [email protected] wrote:

Acer Aspire Switch 10, Intel atom Z3745, win8.1.. Jittering
I test on my desktop Intel® Core™ i5 CPU 750 @ 2.67GHz, Nvidia Gtx750ti,
Ubuntu x64. Motion more smooth, but lags(Jittering) some times happens..
How about Android, i tested on several device and see motion jittering
some times.. Devices not old.
Godot have a native linux editor - killer feature for me and i like
concept of engine, simple and power language gdscript, but optimization is
very bad. Thank for your work guys!

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#2043 (comment).

[allkhor]

Lenovo IdeaTab A3500, ASUS MeMO Pad HD 7(ME173X), Asus Fonepad 7 FE375CG x86(i can test tommorow)
Idle Process Animation, Idle Process Code --- smooth, random jitter 1-2 times in 1 loop(before car not move again),
Fixed process Code, Fixed Process Animation --- jitter all time.

[reduz]

so, basically if i understand correctly:

1. On Old PC (7600gt) you get jitter all the time in all the cars
2. On new PC (Core i5+ gtx 750) it's smooth but you see an eventually
   jitter in all cars every a bunch of seconds
3. You see a lot of jitter on fixed cars, but small to no jitter on idle
   cars on Android devices?

On Sun, Jun 7, 2015 at 6:14 PM, Alexey [email protected] wrote:

Lenovo IdeaTab A3500, ASUS MeMO Pad HD 7(ME173X), Asus Fonepad 7 FE375CG
x86(i can test tommorow)
Idle Process Animation, Idle Process Code --- smooth, random jitter 1-2
times in 1 loop(before car not move again),
Fixed process Code, Fixed Process Animation --- jitter all time.

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#2043 (comment).

[allkhor]

1. Old pc, old amd notebook, acer aspire swith 10(intel hd graphis) jitter all time.
2. New pc - random jitter. Some time a demo work without jittering and lags!
3. Yes, all correct!

[godotengine]

Oh ok.

1. Jitter on Old PCs is due to bad drivers, this can't be fixed, OpenGL was
   not well supported back then.
2. Jitter on modern PCs should be minimal or only a tiny bit. This is due
   to the OS and is expected, all games suffer this as far as I know.
3. Jitter on Android is due to how android works, it only happens on some
   devices, but this will be fixed in Godot soon.

On Sun, Jun 7, 2015 at 6:34 PM, Alexey [email protected] wrote:

1. Old pc, old amd notebook, acer aspire swith 10(intel hd graphis) jitter
   all time.
2. New pc - random jitter. Some time a demo work without jittering and
   lags!
3. Yes, all correct!

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#2043 (comment).

OkamStudio

[godotengine]

Oh also, for devices running windows7. Aereo often creates jitter. For
reference, try disabling Aereo and i'm sure you will notice a difference.
Changing the demo to run fullscreen often fixes this too

On Sun, Jun 7, 2015 at 6:38 PM, Juan Linietsky [email protected] wrote:

Oh ok.

1. Jitter on Old PCs is due to bad drivers, this can't be fixed, OpenGL
   was not well supported back then.
2. Jitter on modern PCs should be minimal or only a tiny bit. This is due
   to the OS and is expected, all games suffer this as far as I know.
3. Jitter on Android is due to how android works, it only happens on some
   devices, but this will be fixed in Godot soon.

On Sun, Jun 7, 2015 at 6:34 PM, Alexey [email protected] wrote:

1. Old pc, old amd notebook, acer aspire swith 10(intel hd graphis)
   jitter all time.
2. New pc - random jitter. Some time a demo work without jittering and
   lags!
3. Yes, all correct!

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#2043 (comment).

OkamStudio

OkamStudio

[allkhor]

Thank you so much! I will follow up on the development of Android in Godot.

[itsraineing]

Just to throw some more results in, on an i5 2500k and R9 270X (actually two in Crossfire, but I don't think Godot supports that right now):

Mint 17.1, Linux 3.16, fglrx 14.12 (Catalyst Omega): all four are somewhat jittery, and all jitter the same.

Win10, various Catalyst alphas and betas: all four are perfectly smooth.

Arch, Linux 4.0.5, xf86-video-ati 7.5 + mesa 10.5.7: all are mostly smooth, but jitter occasionally; Idle Animation is the smoothest, and the two Fixed are the most jittery. Also, if left running, Idle Code falls behind the other three.

[reduz]

Gungrind: Open source 3D drivers, both ATI and NVidia are extremely jittery
for me even on high end hardware (I also have that same GPU), I think it's
entirely the drivers fault. Using closed drivers works smoothly for me on
Linux

On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 12:04 AM, GungnirInd [email protected]
wrote:

Just to throw some more results in, on an i5 2500k and R9 270X (actually
two in Crossfire, but I don't think Godot supports that right now):

Mint 17.1, Linux 3.16, fglrx 14.12 (Catalyst Omega): all four are somewhat
jittery, and all jitter the same.

Win10, various Catalyst alphas and betas: all four are perfectly smooth.

Arch, Linux 4.0.5, xf86-video-ati 7.5 + mesa 10.5.7: all are mostly
smooth, but jitter occasionally; Idle Animation is the smoothest, and the
two Fixed are the most jittery. Also, if left running, Idle Code falls
behind the other three.

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#2043 (comment).

[Angluca]

My laptop is retina macbook pro 2013 (i5, iris pro 5000)
I play more 2d game has no shake on my laptop.
Has shake if I develop physics game use godot or run example (platformer).
#1745

[godotengine]

Pxeller, only the fixed process ones jitter for you?

On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 2:35 AM, Pixeller [email protected] wrote:

My laptop is retina macbook pro 2013 (i5, iris pro 5000)

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#2043 (comment).

OkamStudio

[Angluca]

@okamstudio
Yes, only fixed process ones jitter.
Don't like the feeling of jitter when I play or test the game, It's incredible.

[mischiefaaron]

Smooth as butter on my Mac Mini 2009. Very odd about it not working well for you with more recent hardware.

This happened a lot for me on my Acer C720 when I used Cinammon, but now that I use XFCE it works a lot better. It's GPU is an 'Intel HD Graphics'. Guessing the drivers are good enough, because it's certainly a weak GPU. Can handle some impressive 2D games though like Freedom Planet.

[allkhor]

Oh, i found problem in windows 8.1 and Intel Hd Graphics, it's my fault *( I use a F.lux app for care of my eyes: it makes the color of your computer's display adapt to the time of day, warm at night and like sunlight during the day. And f.lux have a bug, like a stutter in games. Now motion test in my acer aspire switch 10, work like a charm! Thanks @reduz for help in irc!

[itsraineing]

So agameraaron's comment made me wonder about how various DEs would effect this, so I tested Enlightenment, GNOME Shell, Cinnamon, and LXQt (all the latest versions in Arch's repos), as well as Plasma 5, where I originally tested; same system as above (i5 2500k, R9 270X, open source drivers). All looked perfectly smooth, except for Plasma 5, which had quite a bit of stuttering and tearing.

[mischiefaaron]

I use a similar program for Linux as Allkhor called Redshift because f.lux provides abysmal Linux support. I use f.lux on my Mac Mini. I'm not sure if that's the primary source of the issue.

[Angluca]

Hi, Fix it please.

[zhagsenkk]

I find a lot of shakes in any animation. Win8.1,GT 630m

[godotengine]

will be adding fixed step interpolation soon, but this will only fix the
cases where only the fixed cars jitter
if all cars jitter for you, there is something misconfigured on your OS

On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 12:55 PM, zhagsenkk [email protected]
wrote:

I find a lot of shakes in any animation. Win8.1,GT 630m

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#2043 (comment).

OkamStudio

[reduz]

will fix this in 2.1

[reduz]

@Pegus1936 This has been tagged 3.1, and it will be fixed (or worked around) after 3.0 stable comes out, not before.

[ArisKallergis]

If you want an informed opinion on what happened here that led to the deletion of comments, either read this https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/7gmtxl/godot_30_beta_1_is_there_right_in_time_for_ludum/dqk9nel/ while making sure you read the developers' point of view, or take a look at the facebook group, there is a pretty big discussion in a relatively recent post.

[Zireael07]

@ArisKallergis the guy who posted before you is clearly another incarnation of the guy who led to the problems.

[mikeandtherest]

I also experience a lot of micro-stuttering/jittering both on Godot 2.1.4 and on 3.0 beta1_win64. I'm on Win 10 Pro x64, with the latest driver for a GTX 780Ti.
If I disable the Vsync, it helps a bit, but then in fullscreen I get a lot of tearing for the fast moving foreground parallax layers (it doesn't happen for the background layers though).

The only solution that fixed everything for me was Vsync ON + Threaded Optimization OFF (inside the Nvidia Control Panel settings). So just to be clear, this combination fixes the "laggy" side scrolling in both above mentioned versions of Godot.

Now I wonder if there is a way to achieve this from inside the engine, and avoid messing around with custom Nvidia profiles. Thanks!

[Timofffee]

Also I observe a problem on Linux (LinuxMint, ElementaryOS) and Win 8.1 (3 different PCs with different productivity). Many variants have been revised, but the problem is clearly visible even for simple code. For example,

# Scene:
# 
# | Node
# |-- Sprite

extends Node

func _physics_process(delta):
    $Sprite.position += 100 * delta 

[11clock]

I have been dealing with jitter for weeks now, and handed my game over to my friend to test it and he reported no stutter at all. My card is a NVIDIA card (GTX 1070 to be exact) while his is AMD.

We both have Windows 10 and latest drivers installed.

[Timofffee]

I tested on an nVidia 660 and 2 AMD video cards in the laptops. The problem is clearly visible when using Camera2D, or rather when using smoothing in It. Without smoothing flicker is not so noticeable, but it is still there.

[akien-mga]

Good news finally, a fix for (some) jittering causes has been merged in the master branch a while ago (#17353).

Could you test it and check if it fixes the jittering issues on your hardware? You'd need to compile from source, or use a dev build from https://hugo.pro/projects/godot-builds/

[eon-s]

Occasional stuttering still happens on linux, amdgpu with recent mesa, but probably related to vsync and driver only, no more camera update or physics process issues.

[akien-mga]

Occasional stuttering still happens on linux, amdgpu with recent mesa, but probably related to vsync and driver only, no more camera update or physics process issues.

I've found that a lot of the jitter I see is related to using Plasma/KWin as window manager. When I switch to a less intrusive window manager like Openbox (on the same system), I have perfectly smooth _process and _physics_process, including with vsync.

[Calinou]

I've found that a lot of the jitter I see is related to using Plasma/KWin as window manager. When I switch to a less intrusive window manager like Openbox (on the same system), I have perfectly smooth _process and _physics_process, including with vsync.

Have you tried disabling compositing in KWin? X11 compositing heavily slows down 3D rendering in my experience (and adds significant latency).

(Shift+Alt+F12 should toggle the compositor by default.)

[eon-s]

There are also some CPU and GPU options on Plasma settings that may affect Godot too.

[mikeandtherest]

Just don't forget that Windows is still a thing :) In the last 8-9 months I tried again and again to fix this micro-stutter issue so that my train game demo runs smoothly, to no avail. And the crazy thing is that Unity doesn't do that.

[eon-s]

@mikeandtherest just remember that Unity is not a 2D engine (and some configurations may produce some jittering), Godot may not show stuttering effect on 3D either.
In any case, have you tried a master build? Just do not use it on your main project.

[Zylann]

@eon-s Godot does show stuttering in 3D for me, but it's random. Sometimes it runs flawlessly for a few minutes, sometimes it starts immediately stuttering. I'm curious why "2D" vs "3D" would make a difference? They both draw polygons with a bunch of shaders, right?

[reduz]

Ocassional Stutter (like every a few seconds) is NOT jitter. Jitter happens constantly. I think jitter is pretty much gone at this point in master. Stutter has more to do about the OS interrupting the game process because anything that may be going on (such as many Chrome tabs open :P )

Also, on fullscreen, Windows gives more priority to the process so there is less chance of stutter. Probably the only difference between Unity and Godot is that one uses Direct3D while the other is OpenGL, but I am not convinced it's enough. Maybe there is some extra trick that needs to be done to get a bit more priority that Godot is not doing, but I am clueless honestly.

[Zylann]

Did people try this? I wasn't confident in the default setting (though I cannot change it because it throws me an "Access Denied").

[mikeandtherest]

@Zylann Just out of curiosity, are you on a laptop? Because that one doesn't seem to have any kind of effect on my desktop PC.

[Zylann]

@mikeandtherest I am on a desktop PC, but I can't test that because it throws me an error.

[11clock]

@Zylann Even if that worked, I wouldn't want to be telling all my customers to change their PC settings to make my game more playable. A game should work fine on a decent computer with default graphics settings. Not once have I ever encountered a game that required me to change my graphics settings. (And when I thought that I had to in order to fix some games not running right, it ended up having no effect.)

[Zylann]

@11clock of course, its just that I had problems with this settings before (and still am, as well as all nVidia Windows users), and I thought it could have an impact on this as well. Turns out it doesn't then.

[reduz]

I am in favor of closing this issue, because Jitter itself within the engine has been effectively resolved in master.

Remaining issues are about stutter, more OS dependent, and likely related to process priority, OpenGL driver or compositing.

Reports should be done with a lot more focus on hardware, whether testing happened in fullscreen, etc.

[eon-s]

This may need to be closed, yes, and leave the others that are more specific, also I guess that we will see new ones with the new (old) renderer.

[akien-mga]

Agreed, we can say that jitter issues have been resolved with #17353.

Stutter issues can still remain on some configurations, but are tracked in various other issues already.