Balance Impact Knuckles

[BoatNectar]

Summary

Balance "Rebalance impact knuckles bash damage"

Purpose of change

Fixes #56334

Describe the solution

Reduced the bash damage of the impact knuckles from 12 (similar to a pipe) to 5 (slightly higher than brass knuckles)

Describe alternatives you've considered

I've also considered reducing the damage all the way to 4 to make it in line with the damage of the brass knuckles but I figure the impact knuckles higher weight and coverage would allow it to deal more damage per blow.

Testing

Spawned some impact knuckles, punched some zombies was appropriately overwhelmed when trying to fight while nearly unarmed.

Additional context

I'm completely open to any suggestions regarding the best damage value as I understand they are pretty subjective.

[Heitomos]

It should deal more damage as it's a weapon specifically desgined to help with punch. If you're going to nerf it this much you might as well remove the item entirely as the crafting recipe is intense and this patch renders other people's work obsolete. Additionally, if you're going to do this you should go through and nerf every other glove item in the game as there are a dozen that will outperform this nerfed weapon designed for combat now.

[Jarewill]

It should deal more damage as it's a weapon specifically desgined to help with punch. If you're going to nerf it this much you might as well remove the item entirely as the crafting recipe is intense and this patch renders other people's work obsolete. Additionally, if you're going to do this you should go through and nerf every other glove item in the game as there are a dozen that will outperform this nerfed weapon designed for combat now.

All other gloves deal 2-4 bashing damage.
Cestus which was used in gladiatorial boxing as a lethal weapon only has 2 bashing.
Brass knuckles which are specifically forged to be used as a holdout weapon only have 4 bashing.
Impact knuckles don't seem to be based on any real life item as far as I can see, so unless you have an example of a gauntlet being three times as effective as a pair of brass knuckles, I don't see why it should have 12 bash.

Even if it is a forged weapon, it makes no sense for it to be this strong.
The reason why a pipe has this much damage is because it has far more velocity while swung than your fists.
Even when covered in metal, fists shouldn't be as damaging.
Besides, this doesn't render the item useless as it is worn, so if you haul something with your hands, you can drop it faster and punch the threat than having to draw a weapon.

Now as for the PR itself, I like what I'm seeing.
5 bash seems to be a good number for this item, though it's also worrying that mitten gauntlets have 7 bash.
If possible, you could contact the original PR author and ask if the impact gauntlets should really be this powerful compared to other unarmed weapons and if they have any real life item they are based on.
@Drew4484 might also answer if the mittens should have this much bash.

[Drew4484]

It should deal more damage as it's a weapon specifically desgined to help with punch. If you're going to nerf it this much you might as well remove the item entirely as the crafting recipe is intense and this patch renders other people's work obsolete. Additionally, if you're going to do this you should go through and nerf every other glove item in the game as there are a dozen that will outperform this nerfed weapon designed for combat now.

All other gloves deal 2-4 bashing damage.
Cestus which was used in gladiatorial boxing as a lethal weapon only has 2 bashing.
Brass knuckles which are specifically forged to be used as a holdout weapon only have 4 bashing.
Impact knuckles don't seem to be based on any real life item as far as I can see, so unless you have an example of a gauntlet being three times as effective as a pair of brass knuckles, I don't see why it should have 12 bash.

Even if it is a forged weapon, it makes no sense for it to be this strong.
The reason why a pipe has this much damage is because it has far more velocity while swung than your fists.
Even when covered in metal, fists shouldn't be as damaging.
Besides, this doesn't render the item useless as it is worn, so if you haul something with your hands, you can drop it faster and punch the threat than having to draw a weapon.

Now as for the PR itself, I like what I'm seeing.
5 bash seems to be a good number for this item, though it's also worrying that mitten gauntlets have 7 bash.
If possible, you could contact the original PR author and ask if the impact gauntlets should really be this powerful compared to other unarmed weapons and if they have any real life item they are based on.
@Drew4484 might also answer if the mittens should have this much bash.

From previous discussion on this topic, I'm perfectly fine with reducing the gauntlet damage, it was taken from the armored gauntlet (which should also be adjusted), not a number I came up with on my own.

[FayFlightee]

Cestus which was used in gladiatorial boxing as a lethal weapon only has 2 bashing.

Now that could use some bump up into 4 imo.

[FayFlightee]

It should deal more damage as it's a weapon specifically desgined to help with punch. If you're going to nerf it this much you might as well remove the item entirely as the crafting recipe is intense and this patch renders other people's work obsolete. Additionally, if you're going to do this you should go through and nerf every other glove item in the game as there are a dozen that will outperform this nerfed weapon designed for combat now.

I'll have to say this game focuses realism over balance. There's a lot of weapons objectively weaker than others that aren't buffed because there's no reason realism-wise to be stronger.

[Heitomos]

I don't agree with the realism focus. We're fighting aliens, zombies, and otherworldly horrors. None of those are at all realistic. If the game were really realistic there'd be no mutations and no monsters. This kind of realism push is just to limit player options. More and more I find all this stuff that's just junk now cause of 'realism', I find myself always going for the same 'realistic' solutions to problems. Gun for crafting an Lucerne Hammer cause it's the best. Ignore all these mechanics cause they aren't realistic, they exist but don't play them cause they're bad. A million items are junk my eyes glaze over. I was really excited for the weapon cause it made unarmed fun for me again, but the nerf means no more martial arts and back to the one true weapon.

[Drew4484]

I don't agree with the realism focus. We're fighting aliens, zombies, and otherworldly horrors. None of those are at all realistic. If the game were really realistic there'd be no mutations and no monsters. This kind of realism push is just to limit player options. More and more I find all this stuff that's just junk now cause of 'realism', I find myself always going for the same 'realistic' solutions to problems. Gun for crafting an Lucerne Hammer cause it's the best. Ignore all these mechanics cause they aren't realistic, they exist but don't play them cause they're bad. A million items are junk my eyes glaze over. I was really excited for the weapon cause it made unarmed fun for me again, but the nerf means no more martial arts and back to the one true weapon.

I would say a late-era polearm and any firearm being significantly better than punching is in fact, quite realistic.

[kevingranade]

Cestus which was used in gladiatorial boxing as a lethal weapon only has 2 bashing.

Now that could use some bump up into 4 imo.

You might want to take a closer look at the description, people think it's some kind of full gauntlet, but it's just a hand wrap with some hard parts.

I don't agree with the realism focus.

Then you're commenting on the wrong game.

[FayFlightee]

Cestus which was used in gladiatorial boxing as a lethal weapon only has 2 bashing.

Now that could use some bump up into 4 imo.

You might want to take a closer look at the description, people think it's some kind of full gauntlet, but it's just a hand wrap with some hard parts.

Oh, fair enough.