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Update CDDA description on homepage #40945

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merged 2 commits into from
May 31, 2020
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ZhilkinSerg
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Summary

SUMMARY: None

Purpose of change

Several recent discussions on Reddit showed up that people often confuse CDDA with a roguelike, so we need to update description to avoid further confusion.

Describe the solution

Clean up game description on homepage.

Describe alternatives you've considered

Keep the confusion.

Additional context

#40944

@ZhilkinSerg ZhilkinSerg added the Organization: Sites Issues concerning web-sites that relate to Cataclysm label May 29, 2020
@Zireael07
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Uh, when did we stop being roguelike? Last I checked, saves were wiped on death, so that makes it a roguelike...

@PlatoSoft
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Uh, when did we stop being roguelike? Last I checked, saves were wiped on death, so that makes it a roguelike...

It's also turn-based and zombie-oriented, just like Rogue. It also has ascii graphics, just like Rogue. It's definitely a roguelike.

@Hirmuolio
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Hirmuolio commented May 29, 2020

"Roguelike" may not be a very good genre definition (but genres rarely are good definitions anyway). But as far as roguelikes go CDDA is definitely a roguelike. There is no confusion.


Berlin interptation on what a roguelike is http://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=Berlin_Interpretation

High value factors

  • Random environment generation
    The game world is randomly generated in a way that increases replayability. Appearance and placement of items is random. Appearance of monsters is fixed, their placement is random. Fixed content (plots or puzzles or vaults) removes randomness.

    Holds true for CDDA.

  • Permadeath
    You are not expected to win the game with your first character. You start over from the first level when you die. (It is possible to save games but the savefile is deleted upon loading.) The random environment makes this enjoyable rather than punishing.

    Holds true for CDDA.

  • Turn-based
    Each command corresponds to a single action/movement. The game is not sensitive to time, you can take your time to choose your action.

    Holds true for CDDA.

  • Grid-based
    The world is represented by a uniform grid of tiles. Monsters (and the player) take up one tile, regardless of size.

    Holds true for CDDA.

  • Non-modal
    Movement, battle and other actions take place in the same mode. Every action should be available at any point of the game. Violations to this are ADOM's overworld or Angband's and Crawl's shops.

    Holds true for CDDA.

  • Complexity
    The game has enough complexity to allow several solutions to common goals. This is obtained by providing enough item/monster and item/item interactions and is strongly connected to having just one mode.

    Holds true for CDDA through crafting and contruction.

  • Resource management
    You have to manage your limited resources (e.g. food, healing potions) and find uses for the resources you receive.

    Holds true for CDDA.

  • Hack'n'slash
    Even though there can be much more to the game, killing lots of monsters is a very important part of a roguelike. The game is player-vs-world: there are no monster/monster relations (like enmities, or diplomacy).

    Holds true for CDDA.

  • Exploration and discovery
    The game requires careful exploration of the dungeon levels and discovery of the usage of unidentified items. This has to be done anew every time the player starts a new game.

    Mostly holds true for CDDA. Labs are dungeons of a sort and exploring cities is big part.

Low value factors

  • Single player character
    The player controls a single character. The game is player-centric, the world is viewed through that one character and that character's death is the end of the game.

    Holds true for CDDA.

  • Monsters are similar to players
    Rules that apply to the player apply to monsters as well. They have inventories, equipment, use items, cast spells etc.

    Holds true for CDDA. More for human enemies than monsters but still holds.

  • Tactical challenge
    You have to learn about the tactics before you can make any significant progress. This process repeats itself, i.e. early game knowledge is not enough to beat the late game. (Due to random environments and permanent death, roguelikes are challenging to new players.) The game's focus is on providing tactical challenges (as opposed to strategically working on the big picture, or solving puzzles).

    Holds true for CDDA.

  • ASCII display
    The traditional display for roguelikes is to represent the tiled world by ASCII characters.

    Holds true for CDDA.

  • Dungeons
    Roguelikes contain dungeons, such as levels composed of rooms and corridors.

    Labs are dungeons of some sort.

  • Numbers
    The numbers used to describe the character (hit points, attributes etc.) are deliberately shown.

    Holds true for CDDA.

@kevingranade
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kevingranade commented May 29, 2020

  • Random environment generation
    True-ish, we have a LOT of hand-crafted content instead of procedural.
  • Permadeath
    Partially subverted, there is weakly-enforced permadeath, but there is also (optional) replay in the same world, and we do NOT reject more continuity-based options such as taking control of a NPC in the faction you control, which would entirely subvert permadeath as defined by the Berlin Interpretation.
  • Turn-based
    True
  • Non-modal
    Not true, and likely to be subverted further in the future. There are a large number of modal and location-specific interfaces, and things like autotravel occurring at the overmap level are likely. Even shops are called out as being violations of this principle as a clarification, and we definitely have those.
  • Resource management
    True
  • Hack'n'slash
    Not true, there are explicitly monster-monster relations, it's a major game feature, Also killing monsters is explicitly not the only way to progress through the game. DDA considers monsters to be obstacles, not resources.
  • Exploration and discovery
    Partially true, Exploration is a major part of the game, but there is no meaningful per-game item discovery mechanic.

(low-value)

  • Single player character
    Not true, player controlled NPC factions and even more so NPC allies directly counters this.
  • Monsters are similar to players
    Not true, monsters cannot interact with items, have restricted movement modes, do not have access to the same style of attacks as the player (and vice versa).
  • Tactical challenge
    True
  • ASCII display
    Tiles are the dominant play mode based on download numbers. ASCII display remains present, but is niche.
  • Dungeons
    Sort of, the vast majority of play occurs on the surface.
  • Numbers
    Only some of them are shown, and in future we are more likely to trend toward fewer numbers intead of more.

Most importantly, if you bring up this definition as an argument for or against some feature, "Since DDA is a roguelike, you should...", that will be completely ignored, the Berlin Interpretation and the concept of "Roguelikeness" in general has nothing to do with development of the game.
That makes calling DDA a roguelike misleading.

Wrapping it up, DDA is a Post-Apocalyptic Survival RPG. That reflects what I'm attempting to make DDA into, roguelike does not.

@PlatoSoft
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PlatoSoft commented May 29, 2020

Fair enough, I guess. The label doesn't really matter and if you disagree with the definitions so be it. I'll probably keep calling it a roguelike, no matter what you call it. There are way less rogue-like games that are called roguelikes than CDDA. I was more shocked that you cared enough to change it.
Edit: clarity

_config.yml Outdated Show resolved Hide resolved
@kevingranade kevingranade merged commit 3889ef8 into gh-pages May 31, 2020
@ZhilkinSerg ZhilkinSerg deleted the ZhilkinSerg-patch-1 branch May 31, 2020 07:17
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5 participants