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Granularize curing recipies #34291
Granularize curing recipies #34291
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Creating cured_pelt and cured_hide now requires 10x less raw fur/leather (50 -> 5), 10x less salt (10 -> 1) and 10x less time (30m -> 3m) The resulting cured_pelt and cured_hide items are 10x smaller, and one needs to use 10x of them to create tanning versions of them. The problem this is trying to solve is that currently most animals drop small amounts of raw leather and fur (in the 10-20 range), which makes it challenging to amass 50 raw hides/pelts required for curing by the time they rot. Making curing work in smaller batches allows for dramatical savings in the amount of material that goes to waste.
You mention it, but you should probably specifically say |
I didn't know you could do that to PRs. Added to the description, thanks! |
I don't believe it's automated, it's just a stronger reminder to the merger that this PR replaces that one, because they might not have checked if that PR was open when they merged this, and as such not closed it. |
@chaosvolt pointed me at MST take on this problem in chaosvolt/MST_Extra_Mod@22299e9 and we discussed it briefly. Instead of reducing cured hide size 10x, MST introduces a new progression "10x skins-> 1x small cured pelt -> 1x small tanning pelt -> 1x small tanned pelt -> 1x leather patch". (same for fur) MST approach pros:
MST approach cons:
An interesting idea would be to upsize the skins 10x, and then apply MST approach of "1 skin = 1 leather patch". The "50 skins = 1 cured pelt" scaling was chosen in #27399 fairly arbitrarily anyway. Let me know if this is something that would be preferable to the current PR. |
Well, the second solution is much more compatible with #33806; if this PR is merged as is, it will be almost certainly redone anyway as part of the tailoring overhaul, whereas if you do the 10 raw hides to 1 leather patch, it will probably stick around until someone feels like doing a more realistic approach (i.e. |
Currenlty skins are as small as they are as a result of #27399 PR fixing #27390. But the latter bug was since independently (accidentally) fixed in #32983 and small animals (including wolves) now always drop at least one pelt (regardless of how big the pelt item is). So increasing the size of the pelts is no longer a problem. The 1:1 skin->cured skin recipe feels very good to play with, since you don't up in a situation where you for some reason can't cure a pelt just because it's too small. Both being the size of leather/fur patch paves the path for 1 skin -> 1 cured skin -> 1 small tanning skin -> 1 leather patch recipe chain, but that's a problem for another day.
The more I thought about it - the more I liked the idea of having pelts be patch-sized. Did, that, updated the description. I'm now happy with the result, feel free to merge. P.S.: turns out hide bag copies-from raw_leather, and it used to be a very smol item. Now it's a bit bigger but still not pre-granularized-hides big. This is unfortunate, of course, but the real problem is that nobody crafts hide bag anyway, since it'll just rot in a day. |
Summary
SUMMARY: Balance "raw pelts/hides and their cured versions are now patch-sized"
Obsoletes #32671
Purpose of change
The problem this is trying to solve is that currently most animals drop small amounts of raw leather and fur (in the 10-20 range), which makes it challenging to amass 50 raw hides/pelts required for curing by the time they rot.
Rebalancing the sizes of raw and cured items to be the same allows you to always cure all the hides you harvest.
#32671 attempted to solve the same problem, but got abandoned, it contains some more background
Describe the solution
Raw leather/fur and their cured counterparts are now the size of leather/fur patch. The recipes are adjusted accordingly.
The choice of a size is rather arbitrary, but having it be same as a final product paves a way for a future
1 raw hide -> 1 cured hide -> 1 (small) tanning hide -> 1 (small) tanned hide -> 1 leather patch
recipe chain (not included in this PR).
The original motivation for skins to be as small as they are is in #27399 which was fixing #27390. Since then #32983 happened, and accidentally fixed the same problem, and now skin-bearing animals would always drop at least one hide (see changes to src/activity_handlers.cpp - the
ceil
now actually rounds up the floating point number, instead of rounding up an already rounded-down integer)Current leather tech graph: https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/7831163/65825054-b0f40d00-e261-11e9-9ae4-bec17eccef3f.png
With the PR in place: https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/7831163/65831138-d30f7e80-e2a5-11e9-8a56-ec14b328f04c.png
Oh, and I also changed tanning_hide and tanned_pelts to not be lighter than either their components or the resulting tanned_* items for no reason
Describe alternatives you've considered
One could change more/less of the leather tree.
Additional context
Old description
#### Summary SUMMARY: Balance "cured hides and cured pelts are now 10x smaller"Obsoletes #32671
Purpose of change
The problem this is trying to solve is that currently most animals drop small amounts of raw leather and fur (in the 10-20 range), which makes it challenging to amass 50 raw hides/pelts required for curing by the time they rot.
Making curing work in smaller batches allows for dramatical savings in the amount of material that goes to waste.
#32671 attempted to solve the same problem, but got abandoned, it contains some more background
Describe the solution
Creating cured_pelt and cured_hide now requires 10x less raw fur/leather (50 -> 5), 10x less salt (10 -> 1) and 10x less time (30m -> 3m)
The resulting cured_pelt and cured_hide items are 10x smaller, and one needs to use 10x of them to create tanning versions of them.
Current leather and fur crafting tree: https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/7831163/65809869-e7faed80-e191-11e9-9192-96bc695ff620.png
The bold red arrows are the problematic parts, that I'm trying to address.
Leather and fur crafting tree from the PR: https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/7831163/65810175-65286180-e196-11e9-9e37-8e263d2ac6ab.png
Describe alternatives you've considered
Also make tanning/tanned hides/pelts proportionally smaller. This would require more effort for no apparent gain. It's harder to scale those, since they need to deconstruct into a nice round number of leather/fur patches. Some (many?) clothing recipes make it easier to craft stuff from hides than from patches, and rebalancing that might be tricky.
I debated briefly if time required for curing scaling linearly with amount of material is realistic (or if it should be set to higher, but have a batch bonus instead), and turns out that it is. Curing is simply applying salt to the hide - there's no "waiting" involved, so the less patches you have to work with - the faster you'd be done.
Increase leather drops from wildlife 10x. I personally think that this would be good for the game, since right now hunting for leather is very hard and unsatisfying (and it's easier to just get it from zombies). But I understand that this change would probably never be accepted.
Make cured hides/pelts 50x smaller than they are currently, rather than 10x. This would push times required to ~40s territory, increase effective salt requirements 5x (not really a problem), and require having to do 2.5 max-capacity batch crafts of cured hides per tanned hide. I think the latter degrades the UX more than the saving of 4 raw pelts is worth.
Additional context
This change would make characters that have cured, but not-tanned hides stashed "lose" 90% of them (since tanning now requires 10x more). But I hope they'd be happy to pay that price for this change.