Removing bone armor recipes. #28064
Removing bone armor recipes. #28064
Conversation
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Keep in mind the viability of "bone" armour greatly depends on the available bones. We face massive, highly mutated monstrosities like skeletal juggernauts and their bones specifically should be every bit as protective when strapped to our bodies as they are on the original monster. I don't know what your general stance on Blob-enhanced resilience is but at least hulks also need it to support the force generated by their vastly enhanced muscles. Brutes and shocker brutes are borderline too, I guess the latter could be excused via skeletal bionics. |
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I'm more a fan of keeping the armor with stats equal to or worse than leather. Having more options isn't a bad thing, and even if it's not realistically all that protective, a survivor of an apocalypse might not know that. |
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Doesn't an example is proof enought that it is doable ? |
ZhilkinSerg
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Not sure where else to raise this as I personally do not consider it an "Issue", but there exists a "leather body armor" ("armor_larmor") which if anything might be superior to the current bone armor. Diff:
Since I cannot think of a "convenient" source of monster leather I will not bother you with any elaborate excuses or reworks on this one. A helmet, armguards and boots also exist but the corresponding gloves are fingerless. |
That's not the case IRL, and it's not the case in the game. In both cases the difference is that bones are alive. Once removed from a living creature, they lose a great deal of their resilience and hardness. In the case of animal bone they dry out and lose volatile structural elements, in the case of zombie bone they lose the blob as an additional support structure.
My stance is that the blob is actively enhancing resilience of the host body, so once the blob is gone, the additional resilience is gone too.
So it's cosmetic? Feel free to either roleplay that or mod it in, but it has no place in the main game. |
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Human bones as a material are strong. I imagine that bones from large animals such as moose or bear would be even stronger, owing to their purpose of supporting all the thicc. They're pretty freaking tough, but they're not meant to absorb impacts on their own. Perhaps bone armor could be a variant, needing leather or boiled hide to function, but being a little more protective than the former? As in, the bone would either be sandwiched between layers of leather, or underneath the leather itself. It could also be fragile as clothing, and when destroyed, break into its normal leather form, representing those bones shattering off the rest of the armor. It's absolutely possible for someone to string some bones around themselves, it might just not be practical. I'm just throwing out ideas and my rationale for why I think it makes sense to exist; I think it would also be much better at absorbing cuts than anything else, since they're not meant to withstand blunt force. |
More or less will be the same material consistency (trace minerals and diet exclusions); some more details linked here (may be a bit out of date - 1998). Core difference will be size and thickness of bones (pedalism will greatly influence differences in bones). Here's some cool samples to give an idea. |
I can see that happening. Bone armor is the kind of thing that intuitively occurs to and makes sense to Some scenarios that would lead to a player expecting bone armor to be there and not finding it: An innawoods survivor seems some wolves kill a deer and then get led away from the corpse by a crow or something, and the survivor runs up, butchers the body with their stone knife, and hauls the bones away to try to weave them together with the deer's sinew. Coverage would suck since bones can't be formed to fit together like metal or leather can, and it would be encumbering because bones are I could also see a crummier version of plated leather armor for the survivor who doesn't have access to metal yet (more early player innawoods). The recipe for the plated leather armor is the base leather armor with metal plates woven on. Do the same with bone for a result that's less effective than metal. ...no, wait, are the preexisting bone armors supposed to be that crummy bone plated leather armor? What might be useful to reflect the fragility of bones would be to a way to make the bones temporary - they take a few hits before breaking and falling off. That would require quite a bit of new code, though, unless we can repurpose that code for other things. Maybe create an effect that fades based on hits taken instead of time (like drugs) or morale (the Happy effect) or not standing in a light at night (the Lit Up effect) or something. ---ACCOUNTING APPENDIX BELOW--- The current bone armor needs tailoring 6 for coverage 95%, encumbrance 14 (fits), bash 8 cut 10. Plated leather armor needs fabrication 2 for coverage 90%, encumbrance 14 (fits), base 12 cut 12. Boiled leather armor needs cooking 3 for coverage 90%, encumbrance 12 (fits), bash 10 cut 10. You need regular leather body armor and leather arm guards to created plated and boiled leather armor. base leather body armor needs tailoring 5 for coverage 90%, encumbrance 10 (fits), bash 8 cut 8, and leather arm guards need tailoring 3 for coverage 90%, encumbrance 16, bash 8 cut 8. The bone armor suit also covers legs. Leather pants need tailoring 4 for coverage 95%, encumbrance 8 (fits), bash 4 cut 4. Ingredients are 10 fiber and 10 leather patches or 2 hides. Leather chaps need tailoring 4 for coverage 65% (they go over pants instead of being full pants themselves), encumbrance 3, bash 6 cut 6. They need 8 fiber and 8 leather patches or 2 hides. Not sure which is being used as a base here. Bone arm guards need tailoring 4 for coverage 95%, encumbrance 22, bash 8 cut 10. The leather arm guards need 16 thread-type item, with 12 leather patches or 2 hides. The bone arm guards need 11 fiber, 10 bones, and 6 patches or 1 hide; that should cost more to take into account the underlying leather arm guard base and justify the (minuscule) increase in cut armor. Bone armor helmet needs tailoring 5 for coverage 100%, encumbrance 15 (fits), bash 10 cut 15, but only uses bones as an ingredient (it should need leather or cloth as a base, unless you're doing something silly like wearing an empty skull for a hat). I found no leather helmet, and of course metal should be far superior. Bone armor boots need tailoring 3 for coverage 95%, encumbrance 8, bash 8 cut 10. They need 18 fiber, 18 bones, and 6 leather patches. Leather armor boots needs tailor 2 for coverage 95%, encumbrance 9, bash 10, cut 10. That needs 24 fiber, and 18 patches or 3 hides. So bone armor boots need higher encumbrance, and needs to cost at least as much as leather boots. Bone armor gauntlets need tailoring 3 for coverage 95%, encumbrance 15, bash 8 cut 10. They need 12 fiber, 1 long string, 12 bones, and 2 leather patches. Leather armor gauntlets need tailoring 2 for coverage 60% (no fingers), encumbrance 2, bash 6 cut 6. They need 12 fiber and 6 leather patches or 1 hide. Leather gloves need tailoring 2 for coverage 95%, encumbrance 5 (fits), bash 2 cut 2. They need 6 fiber and 2 leather patches. I'm not sure which leather hand piece we could use for the bone armor base. |
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Maybe the bone armor and recipes could be moved to a mod like the more survival tools mod instead of just deleting them? |
Err, just saying, the leather armor also covers the legs.
Here. It has more reasonable stats though, starting with 85% coverage. |
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Bone armour should exist certainly, but not be very durable, have slightly more cut resist than leather, but somewhat worse or the same bash, be very heavy/encumbering in comparison. bootleg armour made from easily available materials, like the scrap suit. I like the player having the ability to improvise with available materials, however there's no reason for bone armour to be as good as it is. Alternatively it can be a scrap armour that's say, a trenchcoat lined with bone requiring a trenchcoat, leather boots artifically 'steel capped' with bone, bone reinforced light gloves, the same with a hooded hat? Kinda like the armored finger-less gloves and similar. Come to think of it, the scrap suit has too much coverage for something held together with string, so nerf that too |
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I feel as though all this discussion is a moot point, as once something has been targeted for deletion, historically it has always gone through regardless of what other people think. The best thing to do right now is for y'all to make your own mods with this armor and share it, as I don't think it's going to survive any of this talk. |
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I'm kinda with Kevin on this, I can find little evidence of bone armour ever being much more than an ornamental curiosity. Remember, dried bone is extremely brittle; you'd be better off making your armour out of wood I think. What we do need more of is bone tools. Bone is good for making a lot of early game innawoods tools - knives, shovels, and more. It's a poor choice for making armour. In terms of wearable bone, I'm sure someone could make ornamental bone clothing that had more appropriate stats, for the fun of wearing the bones of your enemies. |
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https://www.flickr.com/photos/dervish/15091298648 For reference: Reference for use in replacement of the iron/metal plates (I guess when metal supplies was short?): |
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A point of note: Upon looking at the actual items themselves, they're not just pure bone armor. They're leather armor with bone reinforcements: If anything, I'd say all that needs to be done is to up the leather cost, but I don't think anything I can say will make a difference by now. |
Which somehow lowers their protection. |
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And warmth. |
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It's to dissuade edginess, ofc. |
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I was also able to find some references to bone armor used in history. The Inuit and Tlingit used it. Here's another. And another. Also it is mentioned being worn by some of the tribes that the Ancient Chinese fought. |
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The majority seems to be Whale bone (and similar animals), though no idea if this is due to there only being whales and polar bears to get the bones from. As in, would they use other animals if the bones were big enough (elk?), but due to location could only use what was available? If the game lacks a "bone, big", then probably not possible to make bone armour. If it's reasonable to find those in the "New England" setting, then it could be made (from Moose/bear bones etc). |
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Some Chinese source also mentioned the use of bone reinforcement by the Mongols when they dont have access to iron: https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/31813300 |
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Mod for those still interested in craftable bone armor: |
Summary
SUMMARY: Content "Remove bone armor recipes."Purpose of change
I've been unable to find any sources indicating that bone armor as depicted by these items existed in any useful sense. There is this article, but it's silent on the question of whether the armor was useful in any real way.
Describe the solution
Remove the recipe for crafting the item for now, and then remove the item at some point in the future.
Alternatives
Nerf the bone armor items to be only cosmetically different from the matching leather armor.