New optional quest to check if indoor defibrillator still exists

[dreua]

Motivation

Defibrillators are currently only checked only when they are outdoors. Those indoors are - as far as I understand - never displayed in StreetComplete. In an emergency when you need one, it is very important to find the nearest aed fast. For me that would be (given that someone else is taking immediate care of the patient) to open OsmAnd and searching for the aed or defibrillator category. This is by far the fastest because I always have the area around me downloaded and I'm used to the map display style and app functions. That is why I'm aiming to have up to date AED data in Osm. (Running to a place where a aed used to be would be very bad.)

Maybe that is worth an exception to the "easily answerable" rule? It could (maybe should) be disabled by default, so that people dedicated to those checks can enable it. Keep in mind that AEDs are seldomly used, so finding those missing ones by other means than dedicated checking is unlikely.

General

Affected tag(s) to be modified/added: check_date
Question asked: Just the standard "is x still there" question.

Checklist

Checklist for quest suggestions (see guidelines):

• 🚧 To be added tag is established and has a useful purpose
• 🤔 Any answer the user can give must have an equivalent tagging (Quest should not reappear to other users when solved by one)
• 🐿️ Easily answerable by any pedestrian from the outside but a survey is necessary - no, but maybe it's worth an exception?
• 💤 Not an overwhelming percentage of quests have the same answer (No spam)
• 🕓 Applies to a reasonable number of map data (Worth the effort)

Ideas for implementation

Element selection:
All indoor defibrillators which haven't been changed or checked in the last 2 years. (But I'm also fine with having this for 4 years or restricted to indoor defibrillators.)

Metadata needed:
None

Proposed UI:

• Name: Is this indoor defibrillator still there? Disabled by default
• Icon: Same as "Where is this defibrillator located?"
• On enabling the standard "... time-consuming or difficult to make the right choice ..." warning is shown.
• Otherwise it is the same as the regular "Is ... still there?" question.

[mnalis]

See also:

• Is the object still there? #4531

My guess back then was:

It seems it is intentionally (a2d9b8c) not being asked for those located inside, probably due to concern that if indoors they are hard to find, so resurveyors are likely to remove the AED even if it still exists (i.e. the danger of wrongly updating the map would be higher than the potential benefit).

But @matkoniecz added that restriction in a2d9b8c, so perhaps he can pitch in? (I seem to recall there was a discussion about that, but cannot find details now)

[HolgerJeromin]

Indoor AEDs are in my perspective private (as in: inside a industrial building) but also
at many hotels receptions.
The staff at the reception are more than helpful to give the AED to a random stranger from the street,
but you are not able to enter industrial buildings.
So perhaps we need to distinguish both.
46.85% have already access tagged.
So the indoor filter should probably changed to an access filter. The same as AddDefibrillatorLocation quest.

StreetComplete/app/src/main/java/de/westnordost/streetcomplete/quests/defibrillator/AddDefibrillatorLocation.kt

Line 18 in d13ff39

and access !~ private|no"

If a surveyor is not able to find a defi which is tagged as public he will also not be able to find it in a hurry.
So we need to add a DefibrilatorAccess quest? (similar to ParkingAccess and AddPlaygroundAccess)

[matkoniecz]

But @matkoniecz added that restriction in a2d9b8c, so perhaps he can pitch in? (I seem to recall there was a discussion about that, but cannot find details now)

do not remember it at all :(

from looking at git history it was not part of some PR

but it was almost certainly done to avoid people deleting indoor AED they failed to notice from outside - and to avoid people forced to go into POI for a quest enabled by default

and access !~ private|no"

what about ones that are indoor and without access tagged? Indoor quest at least makes people clearly aware that they may be indoor

[HolgerJeromin]

what about ones that are indoor and without access tagged? Indoor quest at least makes people clearly aware that they may be indoor

I thought about this filter:

or (emergency=defibrillator and indoor=no)
or (emergency=defibrillator and access and access !~ private|no)

outdoor defibrillator and
indoor defibrillator with public access

[FloEdelmann]

Defibrillators were originally not part of the CheckExistence quest, but only later added, see:

• Check for existence of more things #2744
• f822241 (see comments there)

The concern by @westnordost in #2744 (comment) was that …

[…] they are often in buildings (and small). We wouldn't want a defibrillator be deleted only because a surveyor wasn't able to see it from the outside and/or was looking in the wrong room for it.

I think this is no longer that relevant, because we now show a label for indoor objects, so users are warned to not only look at the outside of the building.

Thus, I like @HolgerJeromin's suggestion. Note that the filter can be simplified:

or emergency = defibrillator and (indoor = no or access and access !~ private|no)

[FloEdelmann]

I just thought about this a bit more and noticed two things:

1. private objects are already excluded:

   StreetComplete/app/src/main/java/de/westnordost/streetcomplete/quests/existence/CheckExistence.kt

   Line 80 in d13ff39

   and access !~ no|private

2. We probably only want to include defibrillators with an indoor or level tag, so the "indoor"/"outdoor"/level label shows up.

So I'd suggest this filter:

or emergency = defibrillator and (indoor ~ yes|no or level)

---

Or, if we want to take access into account (i.e. only include indoor AEDs if they have a defined, non-private, access tag):

or emergency = defibrillator and (indoor = no or (indoor = yes or level) and access)

… which might indeed better be written as two lines:

or emergency = defibrillator and indoor = no
or emergency = defibrillator and (indoor = yes or level) and access

[HolgerJeromin]

I would vote for defined "public" only defis to remove ones in industrial buildings (aka Flos last suggestion).
But still we nice to have a DefibrilatorAccess quest to "unlock" more of them to this regular maintenance.

[westnordost]

I find @HolgerJeromin suggestions to be best:

or emergency = defibrillator and indoor = no
or emergency = defibrillator and access and access !~ private|no

Yes, the "not private" filter may be duplicate, but its intent is better understandable

[HolgerJeromin]

Just for documentation:

or emergency = defibrillator and (indoor = no or access = yes)

made it. Which is short and readable.
Not sure about access=customer though. Could be not reachable, so probably ok how it is now.