Is there a CogVM (V3, 32-bit) for a modern Mac?

[Ted-Kaehler]

I have a COG image that I have been working in since 2015. Is there any VM I can get for Mac OS 10.11 Big Sur that can run or convert my old COG image? There may be a 32-bit vs 64-bit problem also. (The image does work in SqueakJS, which is wonderful, but I'd like to go a little more native.) --Ted.

[ccrraaiigg]

Hi, Ted. From https://squeak.org/downloads I see a link for stable OpenSmaltalk VMs, https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm/releases/tag/202003021730 . On that page there's a link for a 32-bit Intel macOS VM that runs 32-bit Squeak object memories, https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm/releases/download/202003021730/squeak.cog.spur_macos32x86_202003021730.dmg .

It doesn't look like there are automated builds of 64-bit macOS VMs (either Intel or M1) that run 32-bit Squeak object memories, and Big Sur doesn't run 32-bit apps (I use Mojave in a Parallels VM for that). SqueakJS currently runs both 32-bit and 64-bit memories, but when it writes it creates a 32-bit memory.

[marceltaeumel]

At the moment, the Windows platform seems to be the only platform where you can conveniently open 32-bit and 64-bit images, using the proper VMs. On Ubuntu/LInux, you have to fiddle around with the proper i386 libraries, which might not all be able to co-exist with their modern 64-bit variants.

[marceltaeumel]

Well, in theory it is possible to extent the OSVM to support 32-bit images out-of-the-box, converting them to 64-bit on the fly. Unfortunately, this would also involve some image-level patches, considering the conversion of the object memory from V3 (32-bit) to Spur (32-bit or 64-bit).

[eliotmiranda]

Hi Ted,

On Oct 19, 2021, at 1:24 PM, Ted-Kaehler ***@***.***> wrote:  I have a COG image that I have been working in since 2015. Is there any VM I can get for Mac OS 10.11 Big Sur that can run or convert my old COG image? There may be a 32-bit vs 64-bit problem also. (The image does work in SqueakJS, which is wonderful, but I'd like to go a little more native.) --Ted.

Do you have a development system (Xcode) for your 10.11 machine? Have you tried to build from the OpenSmalltalk-vm sources? Does the build fail because of Apple versioning issues? What specific issues are there? I am happy to help ensure one can still build on 10.11 (& indeed 10.9) with the current sources.

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[eliotmiranda]

Hi Marcel,

On Oct 19, 2021, at 11:46 PM, Marcel Taeumel ***@***.***> wrote:  Well, in theory it is possible to extent the OSVM to support 32-bit images out-of-the-box, converting them to 64-bit on the fly. Unfortunately, this would also involve some image-level patches, considering the conversion of the object memory from V3 (32-bit) to Spur (32-bit or 64-bit).

This is not true. It is straight-forward to convert 64-bit Spur images to 32-bit and vice verse, using the image converters in VMMaker.oscog. No image level modifications are required whatsoever. Eliot _,,,^..^,,,_ (phone)

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[eliotmiranda]

On Oct 19, 2021, at 11:46 PM, Marcel Taeumel ***@***.***> wrote:  Well, in theory it is possible to extent the OSVM to support 32-bit images out-of-the-box, converting them to 64-bit on the fly. Unfortunately, this would also involve some image-level patches, considering the conversion of the object memory from V3 (32-bit) to Spur (32-bit or 64-bit).

If you’re talking about converting from v3 to Spur, I do not think it is feasible to automate this process. The bootstrap was long and arduous (it took about six months IIRC). One would have to define a clear boundary between kernel and the rest of the system to derive the set of method changes. One would have to use simulation machinery to get the image to update itself. Keeping it running as if applied changes might require some special machinery (eg creating new method dictionaries for kernel classes containing the new library and making the switch via a bulk become, installing all the new methods in one fell swoop (all at once)).

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[ccrraaiigg]

Hi all. For what it's worth, I'm working toward making the Naiad module system able to synchronize arbitrary live object state between multiple object memories, not just methods and classes.