diff --git a/meetings/2017-01-11.md b/meetings/2017-01-11.md new file mode 100644 index 0000000..c57e1a4 --- /dev/null +++ b/meetings/2017-01-11.md @@ -0,0 +1,338 @@ +# Node Foundation CTC Meeting 2017-01-11 + +## Links + +* **Audio Recording**: +* **GitHub Issue**: [CTC#59](https://github.com/nodejs/CTC/issues/59) +* **Minutes Google Doc**: + +* _Previous Minutes Google Doc: + _ + +## Present + +* Bradley Meck @bmeck (observer/GoDaddy/TC39) +* Colin Ihrig @cjihrig (CTC) +* Evan Lucas @evanlucas (CTC) +* Jeremiah Senkpiel @Fishrock123 (CTC) +* James M Snell @jasnell (CTC) +* Josh Gavant @joshgav (observer/Microsoft) +* Michael Dawson @mhdawson (CTC) +* Brian White @mscdex (CTC) +* Ali Ijaz Sheikh @ofrobots (CTC) +* Seth Thompson @s3ththompson (observer/Google) +* Trevor Norris @trevnorris (CTC) +* Rich Trott @Trott (CTC) + + +## Standup + +* Bradley Meck @bmeck (observer/GoDaddy/TC39) + * ES modules new info +* Colin Ihrig @cjihrig (CTC) + * Opened a few PRs. libuv release. Reviewed other issues and PRs. +* Evan Lucas @evanlucas (CTC) + * cut 7.4.0 + * small doc PR + * still trying to knock out passing buffer to crypto.randomBytes() +* Jeremiah Senkpiel @Fishrock123 (CTC) + * Promises Unhandled Rejections throw PR + * Minor modules stuff +* James M Snell @jasnell (CTC) + * PR triage and landing + * HTTP/2 implementation + * WHATWG URL impl improvements +* Josh Gavant @joshgav (observer/Microsoft) + * Nothing significant this week :( +* Michael Dawson @mhdawson (CTC) + * scheduled benchmarking WG meeting this Thursday + * Configured jenkins to provide CITGM team accesx to run/modify + CITGM jobs + * ongoing work on ABI stable module API + * LTS WG meeting + * Chasing some AIX issues + * General issues review/comment/lands +* Brian White @mscdex (CTC) + * Reviewed PRs, commented on issues +* Ali Ijaz Sheikh @ofrobots (CTC) + * Triage some V8 Backports +* Seth Thompson @s3ththompson (observer/Google) + * Getting ready for V8 5.7 branch (which includes promise hooks) +* Trevor Norris @trevnorris (CTC) + * working on async hooks tests with @thlorenz + * catching up on misc issues and pr reviews +* Rich Trott @Trott (CTC) + * test, docs, tools, onboardings, mini-Code&Learn, you get the idea + * PR and issue review + + +## Agenda + +* Landing npm 4 into node 7 + [node#10505](https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/10505) +* console.log and util.format should support the %i integer conversion + [node#10292](https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/10292) +* timers: cleanup extraneous property on Immediates + [node#10205](https://github.com/nodejs/node/pull/10205) +* process: Add code to warnings, assign codes to deprecations + [node#10116](https://github.com/nodejs/node/pull/10116) +* meta: deprecation policy + [node#7964](https://github.com/nodejs/node/pull/7964) +* [WIP] meta: update copyright statements + [node#10599](https://github.com/nodejs/node/pull/10599) +* [WIP] Restore copyright attribution + [node#10155](https://github.com/nodejs/node/pull/10155) +* Updating the Copyright + [TSC#174](https://github.com/nodejs/TSC/issues/174) +* Growing the group of releasers + [CTC#48](https://github.com/nodejs/CTC/issues/48) +* Rewrite 002 - esm + [node-eps#39](https://github.com/nodejs/node-eps/pull/39) + +--- + +## Previous Meeting Review + +* Landing npm 4 into node 7 + [node#10505](https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/10505) +* console.log and util.format should support the %i integer conversion + [node#10292](https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/10292) +* timers: cleanup extraneous property on Immediates + [node#10205](https://github.com/nodejs/node/pull/10205) +* doc: Deprecate old debug protocol + [node#10320](https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/10320) +* [WIP] Restore copyright attribution + [node#10155](https://github.com/nodejs/node/pull/10155) +* process: Add code to warnings, assign codes to deprecations + [node#10116](https://github.com/nodejs/node/pull/10116) +* doc: Deprecate old debug protocol + [node#10320](https://github.com/nodejs/node/pull/10320) +* Updating the Copyright + [TSC#174](https://github.com/nodejs/TSC/issues/174) + +--- + +## Minutes + +### Landing npm 4 into node 7 [node#10505](https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/10505) + +Landed in 7.4.0. Remove from agenda. + +No reports of problems, some reports that “everything’s running great.” + +Evan Lucas will reach out to npm to ensure they monitor their tracker for issues +too. + +**Next steps:** + +- Remove from agenda. + +--- + +### console.log and util.format should support the %i integer conversion [node#10292](https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/10292) + +**Next steps:** + +- Remove from agenda, continue discussion in issue. + +--- + +### timers: cleanup extraneous property on Immediates [node#10205](https://github.com/nodejs/node/pull/10205) + +We called for a vote last week, it passed. + +**Next steps**: + +- Land. + +--- + +### process: Add code to warnings, assign codes to deprecations [node#10116](https://github.com/nodejs/node/pull/10116) + +Semver-major change requires signoff from CTC. + +Includes new doc page which lists all deprecations, mostly pulled from error +logs. Could be improved, but that should happen in subsequent PRs. + +If you don’t object to this proposal (assigning codes to deprecations) please +note that in the thread. + +--- + +### meta: deprecation policy [node#7964](https://github.com/nodejs/node/pull/7964) + +Old PR which James is picking back up to clarify deprecation policy. Please look +at and weigh in. + +Requires CTC review because it’s a change to governance processes - discusses +deprecation policy, semver policies, what constitutes an internal API, etc. + +There are some notable changes: +Docs-only deprecations would be considered semver-minor. +Introduces concept of “end-of-life” code for removing unused code. + +@jasnell would prefer a vote to clarify consensus. + +--- + +### Updating the Copyright [TSC#174](https://github.com/nodejs/TSC/issues/174) + +See also: + +* [WIP] meta: update copyright statements + [node#10599](https://github.com/nodejs/node/pull/10599) +* [WIP] Restore copyright attribution + [node#10155](https://github.com/nodejs/node/pull/10155) + +@jasnell has formally asked for the Foundation’s legal committee to review and +provide feedback, response still pending. + +Everyone should review proposed final revised form (in #10599). + +Even initial reversion (#10155) requires review from legal committee. + +Call for a vote (once feedback is received) to clarify consensus. + +--- + +### Growing the group of releasers [CTC#48](https://github.com/nodejs/CTC/issues/48) + +Doesn’t require CTC membership, but requires CTC signoff to grant release +permissions. + +Should shadow current releasers first to ensure they understand process. + +Grant permissions after initial shadow. + +Need to coordinate with Build WG. + +Evan Lucas called for a vote to invite @gibfahn and @italocasas to become +releasers and grant all permissions required. Requires that their public GPG key +be promoted in release system. Also assumes completion of initial shadow. + +Partial vote completed and recorded in issue. + +--- + +### Rewrite 002 - esm [node-eps#39](https://github.com/nodejs/node-eps/pull/39) + +Talking points: + +Current proposal ([node-eps#39](https://github.com/nodejs/node-eps/pull/39)) was +made after July’s TC39 meeting. After September TC39 meeting and recent talks +with V8, we know what needs to change in next version of +[node-eps#002-es6-modules.md](https://github.com/nodejs/node-eps/blob/master/002-es6-modules.md) +on how Node.js will handle ES modules. + +In September we asked for property delegation on access of imported variables +from CommonJS (CJS) modules. V8 team has misgivings on this because it would +require pessimistically guarding against all potential side effects for +accessing all imported variables, including in ESM to ESM calls. For example, +would mean none of those can be inlined. + +Therefore cannot import named variables from CommonJS (CJS) modules, e.g. +`import {readfile} from “fs”`. + +So CommonJS modules will provide only a namespace export with `default` and all +properties will be accessed through that. For example: + +```js +import * as express from “express” +var app = express.default() + +import express from “express” +var app = express() +``` + +Like Node.js, Babel takes `module.exports` as returned from CJS modules and uses +properties off that as imported names. Not using named variables from CJS would +therefore break Babel@6 modules too. + +This means we also won’t have something like Babel@6. Newer versions of Babel +(current PR, RC for webpack2) don’t do named imports at all from CommonJS +modules; they did this because it’s the safest route, and they can reliably +depend on `default` export. + +We will continue to consider other options for named imports from CJS after this +initial implementation. VM owners recognize that named imports from CJS is a +reasonable ultimate goal, but will have to wait for a later phase. + +Now that we’ve decided that we can’t support named imports or Babel@6 modules as +is, we need to discuss async vs. sync loading. + +Key issues: temporal dead zone problem, forwards-compatibility with the web, and +backwards-compatibility with Babel. + +**Temporal Dead Zone Problem**: Exported names from CJS modules are not +definitively known till after the CJS module is evaluated, not at parse time. + +ES spec guarantees that exported names are definitively known at parse time, +prior to evaluation. For example, ES specifies throwing an error at parse time +if an undefined name from an imported module is used, but for CJS modules +whether that name is defined or not cannot be absolutely determined till after +evaluation. + +Loading file into process could be asynchronous although evaluation of the +contents is synchronous. + +Async loader is to be used by web browsers and is supported by ECMA-262 as is. + +Browsers maintain order of evaluation for a dependency graph, but spec doesn’t +mandate that evaluation itself be synchronous for entire dep graph. There could +be gaps during evaluation where loader can yield, which is important to prevent +browser jank. + +Could support synchronization mechanism like top-level `await` around module +loader. + +Supporting async module loading in Node would mean symmetry with browsers and no +need for spec change in TC39. + +A synchronous loader would introduce a temporal dead zone. If CJS(1) loads ES(1) +which itself depends circularly on CJS(1), ES(1) will be evaluated first but +will have a “temporal dead zone” while waiting for CJS module to be evaluated +and guarantee existence of exported names (shape of CJS module). + +With an asynchronous loader ES(1) would only be a promise, and that promise +wouldn’t be fulfilled till the next turn of the event loop, at which point the +CJS module’s evaluation will have completed. So no problem with a “temporal dead +zone.” + +Synchronous loaders are what Node.js has always used so behaves as previously +expected for `require`. + +Would need to land a TC39 spec change which allows lazy/late finalization of +exported CJS names. This introduces a temporal dead zone (where exported +variable names from CJS modules aren’t fully guaranteed) which the spec doesn’t +currently allow (as above). + +Need to decide if Node.js wants a synchronous or asynchronous loader and +advantages/disadvantages of each. Will schedule a meeting to discuss. + +TC39 meeting coming up in a couple weeks, if there are concerns please raise +them with James and Bradley. + +**Next steps:** + +- Open an issue with summary. +- @jasnell to schedule a meeting to review. + +--- + +## Q/A on public channels + +None. + +--- + +## Upcoming Meetings + +Node.js Foundation Calendar: +https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=kap.co_i17i575te0aes6kaanfjr2e4hs%40group.calendar.google.com + +* CTC: 2017-Jan-18, 0500 UTC (9pm US Pacific) +* TSC: 2017-Jan-12, 2000 UTC (12pm US Pacific) +* Benchmarking: 2017-Jan-12, 1900 UTC (11am PST) +* Streams: 2017-Jan-12 1800 UTC (10am PST) +* HTTP2: 2017-Jan-12 1700 UTC (9am PST) +