[Q]Name of the power meter chip on 333g or 354?

[mmmmm009]

Hi,

What is the name of the chip on JSY-MK-333G?

I need to measure THD (total harmonic distortion).

It should be possible according to this printscreen, however I can't see coresponding registers from JSY-MK manufacturer datasheet.
(it should be available in the datasheet of the microchip which is on board).

[mathieucarbou]

Converting to a discussion...

You have the link to the datasheet of the JSY in the project main page: https://mathieu.carbou.me/MycilaJSY/JSY-MK-333G.pdf

It does not expose through modbus the THDu / THDi, so knowing the chip won't help exposing it.

You can look inside the library how I implemented thdi calculation.

MycilaJSY/src/MycilaJSY.h

Lines 218 to 224 in fa95919

	/**
	* @brief Compute the total harmonic distortion of current (THDi).
	* See: https://fr.electrical-installation.org/frwiki/Indicateur_de_distorsion_harmonique_:_facteur_de_puissance
	* @param phi The phase shift angle in radians (1 for resistive load)
	* @return The total harmonic distortion of current (THDi)
	*/
	float thdi(float phi = 1) const;

MycilaJSY/src/MycilaJSYMetrics.cpp

Lines 7 to 12 in fa95919

	float Mycila::JSY::Metrics::thdi(float phi) const {
	if (powerFactor == 0)
	return NAN;
	const float cosPhi = phi == 1 ? 1 : cos(phi);
	return sqrt((cosPhi * cosPhi) / (powerFactor * powerFactor) - 1);
	}

[mmmmm009]

Ok. Good to know that you did those calculations.

"It does not expose through modbus the THDu / THDi, so knowing the chip won't help exposing it."

According to https://mathieu.carbou.me/MycilaJSY/JSY-MK-333G.pdf it doesn't expose thd, however many power-metering microcontroller do offer these parameters (like ADE7880 or others). So maybe thd is hidden somewhere in the registers. That's why Im asking for the name of the chip - to check datasheet of the microchip which is on board (I don't have this device yet)

ADE7880 which is used on Shelly 3EM power meter doesn't expose THD neither (not available in Shelly app nor webserver) however the chip itself provides this info. It's just a matter of a different register address.

[mathieucarbou]

I know. But it's not because the renergy chip supports it that the data is made available.
If you read about the modbus registers available for the 33G in their datasheet, they do not expose neither the angles, neither the thd (https://www.jsypowermeter.com/uploads/JSY-MK-333G-User-Manual-3P4W-20241120.pdf)

that being said, I didn't try to read more registers than the ones in the datasheets because even if possible, there is no indication nowhere about how to interpret the results.

[mmmmm009]

They have THDu THDi in the above printscreen..

[mathieucarbou]

yes I know. They also have plenty of other metrics like phase angles, which the 333g does not expose through modbus.

[mmmmm009]

Im looking for the names of those 2 ICs.

[mathieucarbou]

let me see if I can read them...

[mathieucarbou]

bad luck ;-)

But could be an ATM90E32AS maybe ?

[florentbr]

The LQFP-44 on the left is a RENERGY RN8302B.
https://www.lcsc.com/products/Energy-Metering_619.html?brand=906&s_z=s_RENERGY
The IC on the right is the MCU with customized firmware, most likely a Chinese clone of the STM32.
One of the SOIC-8 is an EEPROM/FRAM and the other one should be a MAX485 driver.

[mathieucarbou]

The LQFP-44 on the left is a RENERGY RN8302B.
https://www.lcsc.com/products/Energy-Metering_619.html?brand=906&s_z=s_RENERGY
The IC on the right is the MCU with customized firmware, most likely a Chinese clone of the STM32.
One of the SOIC-8 is an EEPROM/FRAM and the other one should be a MAX485 driver.

Wow! How you know that is impressive and a mystery to me! Electronic components are as readable to me as its datasheet (https://www.lcsc.com/datasheet/lcsc_datasheet_2411251549_RENERGY-RN8302B_C84227.pdf) 🤣

[mmmmm009]

Maybe interpretation/description of those additional registers is in the datasheet of those ICs.

[mathieucarbou]

even if there were, the modbus addresses are completely different and in a different ordering than the chip registers.

[mathieucarbou]

Note: the only JSY I know of that exposes in its datasheet the phase angle through a modbus register is the JSY1031.

[mmmmm009]

[mmmmm009]

Is there any chance to read these parameters?

[mathieucarbou]

Is there any chance to read these parameters?

where did you get it in english ?

[mmmmm009]

Google

[mathieucarbou]

Google

thanks for the big awesome help 🤣

[florentbr]

www.google.com/search?q=RN8302B+manual
https://static.chipdip.ru/lib/986/DOC042986589.pdf

[mathieucarbou]

Where do you get the 24bits limit for the jsy ?

From the spec of the 2 chips for 194 and 333, 32-bits registers are in fact all seem to be on 24 bit, signed or unsigned depending on the data type.

Example for energy registers:

Which means a limit of: register DATA = 0x00FFFFFF 16777215, which gives: 1677721 Wh for JSY 194 (register is DATA/10000 kWh) and 167772150 Wh for 333 (register is DATA/100kWh => DATA * 10 Wh). With the JSY 333, the last digit will always be 0.

[florentbr]

I checked again the manuals for the 194,193,333 and all I found is:

The electricity data is a 4-byte unsigned number. It will not overflow for 10 consecutive
years and the data will be saved when the power is turned off.

Couldn't find the 24-bits unsigned number you've captured.

[florentbr]

If you are referring to the RN8209D datasheet, I'm pretty sure it's not what is returned by the JSY. The embedded MCU is likely reading and clearing the energy register from the metering IC every 300ms.

[mathieucarbou]

I checked again the manuals for the 194,193,333 and all I found is:

The electricity data is a 4-byte unsigned number. It will not overflow for 10 consecutive
years and the data will be saved when the power is turned off.

Couldn't find the 24-bits unsigned number you've captured.

I don't trust their manual 😅
I found 2 mistakes already when testing JSYs regarding the ratio to apply.

• In RENERGY-RN8302B page 35-36: they give the register size for energy: 24 bits. If this chip is used for the 333 as you said earlier, then with 24 bits it maxes out at 167772150 Wh - 167 MWh

• In RENERGY-RN8209G, page 22-23: they seem to imply that the number is on 32-bit indeed for JSY 194. Which, divided by 10 to get the number of Wh, would support indeed more than 10 years.

I have fixed the energy to uint32_t and normalized the output for all JSY to Wh instead of kWh, which require to multiple by 10 the output of the JSY-333 (1/100) and divide by 10 the output of the 194 (1/10000)

[florentbr]

The MCU has it's own energy counter/accumulator, at least with the RN8209D.
It can't be otherwise since the metering IC doesn't have a negative energy counter.
The RN8209D is likely set in auto-clear mode after read and the MCU accumulates a positive or negative counter depending on the direction flag.

[mmmmm009]

Good to hear that thd is available now.
its only fundamental as you mentioned (50Hz?) right?

[mathieucarbou]

Yes, like we see in the screenshots - it matches.

It would be possible to add a function in the library, something like bool thdU(float[][] levels, uint8_t count), bool thdI(float[][] levels, uint8_t count) to get the harmonic levels for 1,2,3..count for each phase. count to reduce the query.

Not sure a lot of people care about harmonic levels more than 15 anyway...

For example, in my use case (solar diverter), to stays within CEI 61000-3-2 regulation In Europe with a resistive load with phase control, the Harmonic #15 is the first harmonic level to be reached with a nominal load of about 760 W (90 degrees angle), after that, the Harmonic #3 maximum level according to CEI 61000-3-2 is reached with a nominal load of about 1700 W. But H15 is insignificant compared to H3, which is the most significant one in terms of energy transported.

So right now I did not focus the library too much on getting the detailed table, to know the levels for each in order to, for example, compare them to regulatory levels, but this is possible.

About the link: I was searching for "RN8302B datasheet" and when searching for that from where I am, the Russian link never popped up (https://static.chipdip.ru/lib/986/DOC042986589.pdf). To have it in the search result, I had to search for "RN8302B manual". That's why I wasn't able to find it and would have appreciated for you to give it... Remember that's an OSS project, nobody is paid to develop so the best course of action is to be kind with the people who spent a lot of time to put in place such project, and help and/or contribute... Please think about that next time you ask for something ;-)

Hopefully @florentbr did, which helped.

[mmmmm009]

About the link: I was searching for "RN8302B datasheet" and when searching for that from where I am, the Russian link never popped up (https://static.chipdip.ru/lib/986/DOC042986589.pdf). To have it in the search result, I had to search for "RN8302B manual". That's why I wasn't able to find it and would have appreciated for you to give it... Remember that's an OSS project, nobody is paid to develop so the best course of action is to be kind with the people who spent a lot of time to put in place such project, and help and/or contribute... Please think about that next time you ask for something ;-)

I really do appreciate what you guys do here. Really. Regarding to my "google" answear, I had no idea/didn't even think that we may get different search results. I've been busy recently and I simply replied google. sorry ;)

Regarding THD, having the fundamental, is it possible to calculate all of the rest? I know that another chip ADE7880 (which is in Shelly 3EM) calculates THD up to 63rd.

I don't know how many I need - probably up to 40th. I need to measure them to simply check my boiler heater regulator and chinese PV inverter distortion, why?, because In my energy supplier agreement I see this kind of table (automatic translation):
and I've heard that suplier can actually measure all of it and charge me more.

[mathieucarbou]

Regarding THD, having the fundamental, is it possible to calculate all of the rest? I know that another chip ADE7880 (which is in Shelly 3EM) calculates THD up to 63rd.

It is not possible to calculate the other Nth harmonic levels from the fondamental: I suspect these comes from a calculation by measuring the current and voltage for each harmonic frequency.

I didn't know the Shelly 3em was capable of doing that! I have one spare at home, maybe I will install tasmota or something else one day to try hack around !

In Europe we have some regulations for harmonic for appliances, but then for home electricity, only companies have such contraints depending on their plan. Home owners do not have that because e anyway, appliances they use should obey the regulation's.

I've also developped 3 solar diverters: one based on Shelly EM pro + dimmer gen3 + LSA, one based on home assistant, and YaSolR, the most accurate one which supports many builds and hardware.

If you need I can implement these functions to read the table. You will be able to test the accuracy of the results better than me!

[mmmmm009]

a bit OFF TOPIC: (sorry)

I'm a bit confused now and don't know what to do:

I built a similar device to @mathieucarbou https://github.com/mathieucarbou#solar-routers--diverter
link here: https://github.com/mmmmm009/Balancer253V
Based on TASMOTA, PZEM and SSRs

I've used random turn-on SSRs without zero cross function and I'm afraid that my THD is huge.
I'm planning to change SSRs for zero cross ones however I'd like to measure somehow THD now and after the change.

At the moment, I don't have any power meter (except of PZEMs and I'll also have Shelly 3EM installed soon-standard firmware).

I'm about to finish building similar meter to this one here: https://f1atb.fr/diy-solar-energy-router-to-manage-overproduction/
and later modify it to this version here: https://www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/topic3929533.html
First one can measure only fundamental THD and the second one few more.

Which fundamental should I be worried about If I want to be compliant with my energy provider? (up to 40th like in the table above?)

I would appreciate any hints. THX.

I also found this affordable commercial meter: https://www.elektrykasklep.pl/file,662142,0001_00019_02460_4_1.pdf
However accuracy of THD is +-5%. The highest value in the above table is 6%, lowest 0.5%. So I guest the above meter is not accurate enough?

[mathieucarbou]

I know the F1ATB pretty well. I know also the code.... YaSolR (https://yasolr.carbou.me) is far better in terms of accuracy but does not support zero crossing ssr (not sure I will do because with high load it can cause flickering because of the voltage spikes caused by the successive on/off at full load).

For the THD, I would say the 3th and 15th: they are the first to reach the European regulation: at ~1700W and ~750W

[mathieucarbou]

Other thoughts: I don't see why you need to measure the THDi, which is a roughy indicator.

Just check your THD limits and then derive the maximal power that can be diverted with an angle of 90 degrees (worst case).

You should have the same regulation as in Europe where you are ?

Then, knowing the power limit, you can configure your router or wiring to cope with that. For exemple, instad of having 1 resistance of 3000W, have a 3-phase water heater, 2 resistances connected to router external relays (on÷off), and 1 resistance connected to the dimmer. This way, you remain below the 1700W for H3 (which is the most damageable one) and the other ones are activates once the excess goes above or below a level.

See: https://yasolr.carbou.me/overview#recommendations-to-reduce-harmonics-and-flickering

[mmmmm009]

Im an amateur. I try to gather some information first. I don't know (yet ;) ) if i need THDi or not. Im from Poland, so I guess we have the same regulations here.
At the moment I have 3x3000W (3phase) heater (3xSSR). Here are some PWMs signals (1023 is my 10bit PWM resolution = max = 3000W). The system is quite dynamic, algorithm has to change PWM/power regularly. Im not sure If I could use relays like you mentioned.

and L1 voltage: