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Question about font design #11

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Tosakun opened this issue May 15, 2022 · 4 comments
Open

Question about font design #11

Tosakun opened this issue May 15, 2022 · 4 comments

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@Tosakun
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Tosakun commented May 15, 2022

Untitled

The one on the left is Klee while the one on the right is Iansui.

Why did you guys use a more minchō style stroke for 𠃋 rather than a more naturalistic hand written form like in the Klee derived Iansui?

@kokiabe
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kokiabe commented May 23, 2022

Hi, @Tosakun
Klee One is based on a retail font. The designer involved with this font at the time is no longer with us, so we don't know the details. I'm sorry I couldn't help you.

@NightFurySL2001
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NightFurySL2001 commented May 30, 2022

@Tosakun this is the printed ortography style for Japanese and is more similar to what they have taught in school. Please refer to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiu%20zixing . Also the Klee font you mentioned is not free for commercial use; Iansui is based on this Klee One repository too. From Iansui:

此專案「芫荽」則是嘗試盡可能調整字形貼近教育部標準字體,並補充台客語用字,貼近台灣需求,並適合學齡教育使用(如童書、國字習作等)。

Translation: This project Iansui tries to adjust the glyphs to match Standard Typefaces for Chinese Characters [Taiwan], and adding in Taiwanese and Hakkanese characters, matching Taiwan usage, and suitable for [Taiwan] Preschool education usage (such as children book, character writing practices etc.)

It is of bad idea to modify this source repository for Japanese to match Taiwanese education usage. The forms used in font is actually used in Taiwan too if you are not aware.

@Tosakun
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Tosakun commented May 30, 2022

@NightFurySL2001 you seem to have misunderstood my question a bit.

It wasn't why does 糸 have serifs in JP while TW doesn't. It's why Klee specifically, as a font that is meant to emulate characters written by pen, has the serifs. Especially when other handwritten fonts/Kyokasho Japanese fonts generally don't have the serifs, and more closely follow the Taiwanese style of 糸 above.

I'm also not saying to change this font specifically, but was more curious about the design methodology about using a design created for woodblock printing and not a design created for handwriting, as I mentioned before, the Klee is advertised as.

I should say, I did throw out a suggestion to Source Han/Noto Sans CJK (notofonts/noto-cjk#171) about working them working together with the creators of Klee, Iansui, and Wenkai to create a Source Han Regular and Noto Sans CJK Regular fonts. But I realize nothing will probably come of it as I don't know any of the legal, financial, or effort needed for such an undertaking.

@NightFurySL2001
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as a font that is meant to emulate characters written by pen, has the serifs.

This font is designed with printing orthography with handwriting characteristics only, not directly with handwriting orthography.

文字の起筆部と終筆部に硬筆の筆記具で書いた文字特有のアクセントをもたせた硬筆体です。
楷書体や教科書体とは一味違う手書き風のイメージを持ち、本文組みに適した書体です。

more closely follow the Taiwanese style of 糸 above.

Most Japanese handwriting has the first stroke as ㇛, not ㇜.

using a design created for woodblock printing and not a design created for handwriting

There is no official requirements that says that handwriting fonts must use the handwriting orthography. Also, the "woodblock printing" design you mentioned is still in use in Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong etc too.

I don't know any of the legal, financial, or effort needed for such an undertaking.

It is legally possible to merge all the fonts together as they all originated right from this repository, which uses the OFL license. It will take a non-trivial time to do this though as WenKai actually retains part of the printing orthography instead of changing to writing orthography like Iansui did; a huge effort will need to be done to redo the SC part. I could do that personally, but I will not agree for Iansui to take the crown for "Traditional Chinese" like Source Han/Noto CJK does as it does not reflect the reality of orthography used in TC regions.

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